Teresa of Avila: Listener Questions (Part 1)

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

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James Finley (0:08)

Greetings, I'm Jim Finley.

Kirsten Oates (0:11)

And I'm Kirsten Oates.

James Finley (0:13)

Welcome to Turning to the Mystics.

Kirsten Oates (0:16)

Thanks.

Welcome, everyone. We're coming to the end of season two of Turning to the Mystics, where we've been turning to the 16th century mystic, St. Teresa of Avila, and her beautiful book, The Interior Castle. We have two more episodes this week and next week, and in both episodes, we're turning to questions from our audience. So we're so grateful for the questions, and I think you'll see they draw a lot of wisdom from Jim. So thank you for those people that sent them in. Let's get started. Welcome Jim, good to see you. We've come to the end of the beautiful work by St. Teresa of Avila, the Interior Castle. And today we're taking questions from listeners.

I wondered if you had any, you've read through a lot of the questions. Do you have any just initial overall reflections about what you've been seeing?

James Finley (1:18)

Yes, I read them all. I thought they were very good in the sense that what she's saying here, she's really writing this as spiritual direction for guidance for those who are drawn to move toward these more contemplative ways of experiencing God's presence. And these questions that people are asking are the kinds of questions people ask.

Like what about this and what about that? Either around the prayer itself or these great states of consciousness or as it applies to events in their life, because it touches things that we've gone through or things we're presently going through. So the questions were just sounded like they were real, like real questions of people trying to walk this walk.

Kirsten Oates (2:04)

It's so nice to get them at the end of the season, isn't it, to know how it's been reaching people.

And yeah, so the first question is from Lynn. And she says, she's in the first dwelling of the Interior Castle, where it says, unless these souls strive to heal their profound misery, they will be turned into pillars of salt, just like Lot's wife was changed when she looked back. And she wondered what that meant.

James Finley (2:37)

You know, the reason in this series we started with Thomas Merton is because he's contemporary.

So a lot of his language and the way he words things, he's the spirit of our age.

And so, partly when we read these classical mystics, one, we're getting to the depth and beauty of their teachings. But we're also getting into the language of a previous period of history. And the things they refer to in scripture, the images that they use, it's like learning a new language in a way. Kind of the spirit of the age and how the mystical gift runs through all the ages. But each age incarnates it in its own language. It has its own ambiance to it. And so the story of Lot's wife turning to look back and turn into a pillar of salt as a punishment. So really it's a kind of a metaphorical story on that it's not wise to not humbly do God's will.

So I think for Teresa, we need to understand when she refers to things like this. We always need to see them in the light of her foundational principle, that God is love. The God whose love lives in the innermost center of your soul and the whole reason God creates you is for God to give himself, to give herself to you in love. So it's the spirit of the gospel, it's the spirit of love. So any interpretation contrary to that is contrary to her intentions. And so I think it's seen in that way. She's using it, I would say as a poetic metaphor to be very careful about being indifferent.

When it comes to the matters of the love of God. Just like in a marriage. Be very careful about taking each other for granted. Be very careful by intentionally doing anything to hurt each other. Be very careful because if you're not careful, you're turning into a pillar of salt. That is, you know, it'll go dead in the water on you. You're not careful. I think it's more like that.

Kirsten Oates (4:50)

Thank you, Jim.

The next question from Corey refers to your experience of being a psychotherapist and he's asking you about a particular form of psychotherapy that he's come across called internal family systems. I'm wondering if you've heard about it.

James Finley (5:08)

Yes, I am aware of that. And I've used in my own trauma work, I've used a variation of that, which really has to do with understanding subsystems of the personality that are formed in trauma. And how one learns to work with those aspects of the self that are still caught in a traumatized state, moving toward an integrative, more reality-based way of living. It's a very, can be a very helpful way of helping people work through internalized trauma.