Stay Sober, Stay Alert: A Christian Guide to Mysticism & Psychedelics

**Gary Stockton** (0:00)
But basically, these serpentine deities would demand human sacrifice and return for giving them wisdom and return for putting curses on people and different witchcraft, raising people from the dead, all sorts of really spooky things. So that's really a great place to start in the history, but as I was doing my research, I kept coming across nation, people after people, where the Mayans, the Aztecs, the Incans, the Native Americans, ancient Celts, even the Vikings apparently, the Gauls, the ancient Greeks. As we explore the legend of Asclepius, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Hindus, they all worshiped a serpentine deity. They would fellowship with said deity via psychedelic drugs or in the Greek, pharmakeia.
And they would, these beings would demand human sacrifice in return for wisdom.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:01)
Your organization is known worldwide and we certainly appreciate every facet that you do.

**Chris Blackburn** (1:05)
I do believe in what you're doing because I've seen it in my family.

**SPEAKER_4** (1:09)
I'm so excited about all the things that, Robert, you guys do with Classical Conversations. It's been a huge blessing for our family.

**Chris Blackburn** (1:15)
Grateful for the work at Classical Conversations. You're a leader and you have been in this movement for a long time. We love Classical Conversations.

**SPEAKER_4** (1:22)
I do feel like I have a debt of gratitude to you, your family, all of CC for just the fruit that has come from CC.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:32)
Appreciate all that you guys do, both through this wonderful podcast and also through Classical Conversations, which I am convinced is the best education resource out there. Thank you very much for all that you do for the cause of Christ and for our families and for our children. Really, really appreciate it.

**Robert Bortins** (1:48)
Hey everyone, welcome to another informative episode of Refining Rhetoric. It's such a joy to be able to talk to so many Classical Conversations graduates, whether they are recent graduates or doing big things, owning businesses, going to college, doing all sorts of things and just seeing how the Lord has worked through this program over the years. I've been looking forward to talking to Gary Stockton. He's a CC graduate. He started his journey at age five in the foundations program. And just graduated from Challenge Four in Texas. So he probably knows a lot more than I do because he's been through it the full time. I just did a couple of challenge levels early on. And of course, I going through it with my own kids today.
But he had a super interesting senior thesis. This is like the capstone event of capstone event. Many people won't even do this until they get a master's degree. We have our high school seniors doing it. And his was Stay Sober, Stay Alert, A Christian Guide to Mysticism. And as really as a 32 source academic argument structured according to the Classical Rhetoric Framework and the thesis engaged peer reviewed research from Johns Hopkins Academic Journals and excerpts from CS. Lewis, Dr. Voddie Bauchman, Rest in Peace, and primary biblical sources in both Hebrew and Greek. So Gary, it sounds like you already have a PhD, but just a high school degree from CC.
Welcome to the show.

**Gary Stockton** (3:15)
Thank you for having me. This is an honor.

**Robert Bortins** (3:18)
Yeah.
The honor is all mine. It's just always humbling to talk to CC graduates and those who, you know, went along with us along this journey. So, yeah, tell us really quickly about your CC journey. And I really just want to dive into this idea of mysticism with you today because it seems to be getting a bigger hold in our culture over the last decade or so.

**Gary Stockton** (3:42)
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So, I've been doing CC, like you said, since I was actually about 6 years old. I started homeschooling when I was 5, but we quickly saw the better way with CC.
My dad being in the Coast Guard for 20 years, we moved around a lot. So CC has just been awesome because I've been able to move, have a community constantly and be on the same page with everybody. And it's just been a real blessing from God.

**Robert Bortins** (4:10)
Well, thank your dad and your mom for his service. I know that's stressful on everyone. And we live next to Fort Bragg here in North Carolina, and my youngest brother serves. So yeah, our heart always goes out to those in the military and the Coast Guard and the work that they do to keep us safe and secure. So thank your dad when you see him for me.

**Gary Stockton** (4:32)