Self-Help Without Other People Is Just Selfish — and Here's the Science to Prove It | Dan Harris

**Dan Harris** (0:03)
Hello, my fellow suffering beings. Welcome to the 10% Happier podcast. I'm your host, Dan Harris. Normally on this show, given that I'm the host, I ask a bunch of questions of some smart guest. Today though, I'm on the receiving end of the question. What you're about to hear is an event that was recorded live at the 92nd Street Y where I was interviewed by the journalist Allison Gilbert. We talk about why meditation still has a PR problem, why self-help without thinking about other people is just selfish, how I personally cope with my panic disorder and sometimes take stairs instead of the elevator. The case for loving kindness practice even though it can feel a little cheesy, I sometimes describe it as being like Valentine's Day with a gun to your head, and why and how I used Chachi PT to help me get a really important recent medical diagnosis.
So a lot here and I think you're going to enjoy it a little bit more before we dive in on Allison Gilbert, who is the one asking the questions. She runs a series of events at the 92nd Street Y, which is an incredible institution in New York City. It's called the Connected Lives series, so it's an occasional series of events she does. She also has an app called More Connected that helps you feel less isolated, build stronger friendships, et cetera, et cetera.
You can get that app by visiting beingmoreconnected.com.

**Allison Gilbert** (1:40)
Thank you guys for coming and thank you, Dan Harris.

**Dan Harris** (1:43)
Thanks for having me.

**Allison Gilbert** (1:44)
I am just a kid in a candy store, truly. I am so thrilled that you're here, and I want to start with some congratulations for you.

**Dan Harris** (1:53)
Thanks.

**Allison Gilbert** (1:53)
Ten years.

**Dan Harris** (1:54)
I don't even know what you're going to graduate for.

**Allison Gilbert** (1:57)
Well, it's 10 years of your podcast.

**Dan Harris** (1:59)
Yes? Yes. Yes.

**Allison Gilbert** (2:00)
And I just, amazing.
It's amazing.
And the other person who had something to say, and we have to acknowledge her here, is Dr. Ruth Westheimer, because we are here in honor of her. And I was thinking about preparing to interview you tonight. So I was thinking, what does Dan Harris and Dr. Ruth Westheimer have in common? And so I came up with two things. One is that she was a straight shooter. And if you have read Dan's books, if you listen to his podcast, you know that you don't mince words. You're very, very straightforward. And that she changed, of course, the conversation about sex. And what I think that you do, what I think you do so well is that you're changing the conversation about meditation. And you have said it has a massive PR problem. What is the PR problem that meditation has that you have sought so successfully to change?

**Dan Harris** (3:00)
Well, I think it's switched. When I wrote 10% Happier 12 and a half years ago, or I think maybe just 12 years ago, it was just considered fringe, hippie pursuit. And I was trying to argue, there's actually a lot of data to show that it can rewire key parts of your brain, help with anxiety and depression, make you more effective at work.
I think that is no longer really the issue. I think most...

**Allison Gilbert** (3:29)
Do you think because of your efforts? Do you think that you were helpful in that?

**Dan Harris** (3:32)
Maybe I was helpful, but I do think that the primary engine for social acceptance of meditation has been the science. I maybe gave it a little bit of airtime, which was helpful, but it really is the scientists who have changed the conversation. What I think the problem now is is that most people... I can't see you guys, but I'd be curious if I could see you to do a hand raising exercise, which I won't make you do because I can't see you.
But most people, I suspect, if I asked you, who thinks meditation is good for you, most people would raise their hands. And if I said, who thinks they suck at meditation, most people would also raise their hands. And that is the problem. People think, I get it, it's good for you, but I can't do it. I can't clear my mind. And so I think most of what my job is on the planet now is to assure people that you don't have to clear your mind. As I often joke, clearing your mind is impossible unless you're enlightened or you've died.
The goal of meditation is just to focus your mind for a few nanoseconds at a time. And then every time you get distracted, you start again and again and again. And it is that starting again that is the practice. So the moment when you wake up from distraction, which is the moment when most people tell themselves a story that they're incapable of meditation, that is actually proof of success. Because what happens when you notice that you've gotten carried away, is that you're getting an insight into how your mind works. In other words, I don't know if I'm allowed to do this in 92nd Street Y.