Self-Driving Cars: Timothy B. Lee Answers All the Questions You Were Too Afraid to Ask

**Christina Farr** (0:00)
I'm Christina Farr.

**Ash Zenooz** (0:01)
I'm Ash Zenooz.

**Luba Greenwood** (0:03)
And I'm Luba Greenwood. Welcome to Second Opinion, a podcast for digital health insiders from Second Opinion Media and Turpentine. Each week, we navigate what's really going on in health care through unfiltered conversations with entrepreneurs and investors that are leading the charge.

**Ash Zenooz** (0:18)
This season, we're tackling meaty topics like biosecurity, the latest in telemedicine, why patient acquisition is so hard, and the pros and cons of VC versus private equity.

**Christina Farr** (0:29)
I've covered the industry now for a decade as a former journalist with CNBC turned investor with Oma's Ventures. With my good friends, Ash and Luba, we are developing a show at Second Opinion that brings real experts into the ring and asks them the tough questions that you've been dying to know in digital health.

**Luba Greenwood** (0:47)
Exactly, Chrissy. Ash brings her experience as a physician, as an executive in government in big tech, and healthcare CEO at many companies.

**Ash Zenooz** (0:55)
And Luba's background is a lawyer, investor, biotech CEO, and managing partner at the Data Fiber Cancer Institute Venture Fund adds another layer. What's that joke? An investor, a lawyer, and a doctor walk into a bar and...

**Christina Farr** (1:10)
Anyways, it leads to a lot of treat telling. Fun fact, I originally met these two in the bathroom line while we were trying to put on lipstick at a healthcare conference. And now here we are. Join us at Second Opinion.

**Ash Zenooz** (1:22)
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**Nathan Labenz** (1:27)
Hello, and welcome to The Cognitive Revolution, where we interview visionary researchers, entrepreneurs, and builders working on the frontier of artificial intelligence. Each week, we'll explore their revolutionary ideas, and together we'll build a picture of how AI technology will transform work, life, and society in the coming years. I'm Nathan Labenz, joined by my co-host, Erik Torenberg. Hello, and welcome back to The Cognitive Revolution. Today, I'm excited to share my conversation with Timothy B. Lee. Noted Autonomous Vehicle Industry Analyst, and author of the understanding AI Newsletter, online at understandingai.org.
Tim has been covering the self-driving car industry since 2016, and his in-depth analysis of the various technology stacks, business models, and regulatory issues that have shaped the space make him the perfect person to answer all of my many questions on this topic. Over the next two hours, we characterize the current state of the art in autonomous vehicles, starting with our personal experiences with both Waymo and Tesla. We unpack the contrasting approaches of these industry leaders, including their different hardware stacks, data acquisition methodologies, and deployment strategies. We examine the technical hurdles that are still facing self-driving cars, from handling edge cases like emergency scenes to expanding beyond well-mapped areas. We interrogate company-published safety statistics and explain why it remains difficult to definitively prove that autonomous vehicles are indeed safer than human drivers, though it does seem like Waymo is getting close. And finally, we explore the regulatory environment, starting with the very notable fact that government oversight has not been nearly as restrictive as many might have feared. Along the way, Tim also explains why some previous predictions have proven overly optimistic and shares his current expectations on timelines for widespread adoption. We even explore the potential for new vehicle form factors once human drivers are no longer necessary. Throughout, Tim provides a very balanced view. He's clearly very excited about the fact that today's leaders are finally getting to the point where their products really work. Today, Tesla allows human drivers to take their hands off the steering wheel, and Waymo is beginning to scale truly driverless cars. And yet, at the same time, Tim is realistic about the fact that it probably will still take a few years before self-driving is very broadly available. For my part, driving is the most dangerous thing that I personally regularly do, and many people spend a lot of time doing it, so I really can't wait for AI driving systems to become the new normal. As always, if you're finding value in the show, we'd appreciate it if you take a moment to share it with friends or to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can also DM me on your favorite social network, and we continue to invite your resumes, if you're an aspiring AI engineer or AI advisor, via our website, cognitiverevolution.ai. Now, I hope you enjoy this conversation about all things self-driving with Timothy B. Lee, author of understandingai.org. Timothy B. Lee, author of the understanding AI newsletter at understandingai.org. Welcome to The Cognitive Revolution.

**Timothy B. Lee** (4:36)