Sanctioned: Cuba Under the US Embargo with Raúl Rodríguez Rodríguez

Claudia Flores (0:00)

Today, we're looking at one of the longest running fights over rights in the Western Hemisphere, the US embargo on Cuba, now in its seventh decade, and the question of who's really responsible for the extreme human cost.

Tom Ginsburg (0:12)

Our guest is Raúl Rodríguez Rodríguez, Director of the Center for Hemispheric and United States Studies at the University of Havana, where he has spent years researching US foreign policy towards Cuba and the politics of sanctions while he is living under the various sanctions that he studies.

Claudia Flores (0:29)

Our conversation with Raúl explores the impact of sanctions and whether or not there is ever a justification for coercive measures that result in fundamental human rights violations.

Tom Ginsburg (0:39)

We cover the history of the embargo, how it shaped daily life on the island, and what six decades of US-Cuba relations tell us about the limits of unilateral coercive diplomacy as a foreign policy.

Claudia Flores (0:52)

I'm Claudia Flores, law professor at Yale Law School.

Tom Ginsburg (0:55)

I'm Tom Ginsburg, a professor of law at the University of Chicago.

Claudia Flores (0:58)

This is Entitled, a podcast about why rights matter and what's the matter with rights.

Raúl Rodríguez Rodríguez (1:08)

My name is Raúl Rodríguez. I am the director of the Center for the United States and Hemispheric Studies at the University of Havana. I've been the director for the last 10 years, but I've worked at that center for some more time.

Tom Ginsburg (1:22)

Thank you so much for joining us. We know that conditions in Cuba have deteriorated in recent years, maybe months. I wonder if you could just describe for us what ordinary life is like just to start, and particularly ordinary life for an academic.

Raúl Rodríguez Rodríguez (1:39)

Let's start by one basic fact. Cuba needs, is running now on 40% of its energy needs. That's very basic. So when you have a whole country that is running on less than half of what it needs for running, it means that a lot of things will be affected. Just to mention, it's been widely reported. There are blackouts that last more than 24 hours in parts of the island.

There are also consequences in access to clean running water, water treatment, which is a potential for epidemics, as we understand. There are also issues with garbage collection, because garbage trucks need new fuel to run around cities. And also they need spare parts and they need batteries and things that make it run. There's also issues with access to liquefied gas for cooking. And all that means when a country runs on less than 50% of what it needs. There are issues also with public transportation. It's almost non-existent in a city like Havana, which is almost 2 million people. So the whole energy situation cuts across every issue of life. Things that you guys take for granted, it's like waking up, turning off the light sometimes is not there. Waking up and open the tab to brush your teeth is usually not, is sometimes not there. So things that make life normal, that people don't even think about it, you have to think about them, you have to organize them, you have to live and add to your daily routines.

When lights come off, you have to, if you have a power station, you have to worry about connecting it so it charges. So when light goes off, then you have power. Like now, for example, I'm running on a power station so that I can get connected. I had to do that before.

We got cut off at 8.3 in the morning, so I have to plug that up overnight so that I have energy to work. So basically, things that people take for granted that it's normal everyday life are not accessible.

And also, there are other problems, dangers of epidemics, with garbage collection, with access to running water, even access to water treatment, which may lead to issues of health, of public health. So the daily situation is very critical. There are some parts that are even worse than Havana, some other areas in towns around the island. So it's basically a situation that has put a strain in everyday life of all Cubans. In academics, of course, we do have issues of, like, now, connectivity, access to many things that we usually need. The university is running also at not its full potential. Classes have been cut down in time and not only in time, but also in periods. The University of Havana has started, but other universities on the island have not been able to start the new course in September, which will have a huge impact on education. And the other issue, big issue is the issue with hospitals. Hospitals are lacking energy at some points.