'Popcast': Gracie Abrams on ‘Daughter From Hell,’ Internet Cruelty, Writing With Paul Mescal, & Audrey Hobert

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
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**Lulu** (0:36)
Hi, it's Lulu.
We're taking the 4th of July weekend off, but we will be back next weekend and it's going to be a great one. David's interview with Mick Jagger. In the meantime, I wanted to share a conversation from another great New York Times podcast, Popcast. If you don't subscribe, you really should. The show covers all aspects of pop music and hosts John Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli have had so many great guests on lately. I'm jealous, including MIA., Jack Harlow and Luke Combs.
Today, we're sharing their recent conversation with singer-songwriter Gracie Abrams, which I think you'll really love. Have a great holiday and enjoy.

**Joe Coscarelli** (1:17)
There are a lot of verses about being high on this album.

**Gracie Abrams** (1:20)
Yeah, there are.

**John Caramanica** (1:21)
Daughter From Hell. Welcome to The New York Times Popcast. You are, I've actually done that more than once or twice, if we're being honest. Of Weekly Culture Chat, John Caramanica, I'm the critic.

**Joe Coscarelli** (1:47)
I am Joe Coscarelli, I'm the reporter.

**Gracie Abrams** (1:50)
I'm Gracie Abrams, and I am on Popcast.

**John Caramanica** (1:53)
That's right!

**Joe Coscarelli** (1:55)
Gracie Abrams, here with us today.

**Gracie Abrams** (1:58)
That's right.

**John Caramanica** (1:58)
That's right.

**Gracie Abrams** (1:59)
Thank you guys for having me.

**John Caramanica** (2:00)
Set it with her chest, too. She meant it.

**Joe Coscarelli** (2:03)
I'm gonna do a quick rundown of your CV. Of your life. And then we'll get rolling.
Gracie Abrams is a Grammy nominated singer-songwriter, getting ready to release her third full-length album, Daughter From Hell, on July 17th. Beginning with the pandemic era minor EP, Gracie has become known for quote unquote, sad girl, confessional bedroom pop.

**John Caramanica** (2:27)
Wow.

**Joe Coscarelli** (2:30)
Is that fair?

**SPEAKER_1** (2:30)
A tackle from the crowd.

**John Caramanica** (2:32)
Sad girl.

**Joe Coscarelli** (2:33)
Is a sad girl? Do you consider that a genre?

**Gracie Abrams** (2:35)
I've seen, you know, people, I am a girl. And there have been sad songs.

**John Caramanica** (2:43)
And you've been sad.

**Gracie Abrams** (2:44)
I'm just a girl.

**John Caramanica** (2:46)
People amongst us, really.

**Gracie Abrams** (2:47)
Yeah, let them say it.

**Joe Coscarelli** (2:49)
On songs like, that's so true. Risk.
And I love you. I'm sorry. A proud acolyte of Taylor Swift, Gracie has opened for a ride-all on the Arrows Tour.

**Gracie Abrams** (3:10)
Hey, Gracie, you gotta come out and see this.

**Joe Coscarelli** (3:12)
The pair were nominated together for their duet, Us, for a Grammy from Gracie's previous album, The Secret of Us in 2024
The year before that, you were nominated for Best New Artist at the Grammys. You've been selling out arenas all by yourself. This new album, written and produced with your longtime collaborator, Aaron Destner, has collaborations with Bon Iver, Marcus Mumford, a very special co-writer, who I think we'll talk about later.

**Gracie Abrams** (3:48)
Yes.

**Joe Coscarelli** (3:50)
The first single, Hit The Wall, is out now.
But I wanted to start with the title of this album, Daughter From Hell. We just met, but you seem like a very polite, well-mannered.

**John Caramanica** (4:09)
Are you on unusually good behavior today? Successful.

**Gracie Abrams** (4:13)
Yes. I decided to be decent for you all.

**Joe Coscarelli** (4:17)
You've made a name for yourself. You've been nominated for some awards. You seem to be winning at life.
Where does this version of you as a daughter from hell, where does that stem from? Because I don't see it.

**Gracie Abrams** (4:31)
Well, that's a good thing to hear. Thank you. Wow. Thanks, guys. Well, the song, the title track, was written toward the end of the process of making the album.
It felt like the first time I was able to write a song, but really write anything other than a text, so I'm apologizing to my mom for being so brutal growing up. And obviously, adolescence is tough for the child and for the parent. I think my mom and I had like, we earned our relationship we have now, for sure. She is like my favorite person. And we FaceTime, like I call her like six times a day. It's one of those things.