Penn and Kim Holderness on Neurodivergence And The Creative Journey

**Morra Aarons-Mele** (0:00)
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That's a clip from the YouTube channel of today's guests, Penn and Kim Holderness. Now, you might know them because they were winners of The Amazing Race, but they've gone on to build a company, a brand, and a big following since then. Penn has ADHD, and together, the couple set out on a five-year journey to better understand what ADHD meant for Penn and his brain, but also for their family and the rest of the people they interact with every day. The Holdernesses have learned to embrace Penn's neurodivergence and leverage each other's strengths.
And they wrote a book about it, called ADHD Is Awesome, A Guide Of Mostly Thriving With ADHD. I wanted to talk to them, not just because of their ability to see the upside of ADHD, think extreme creativity and adaptability, but also to hear their journey of making work work for them in the face of neurodivergence and entrepreneurship and all the things. They share lessons I think we can all benefit from. Penn, you wrote something that was so moving to me. You referenced what's called the second arrow in Buddhism, where the first arrow is the hurt of the mistake that you made. The second arrow is the shame that you feel from letting people down. And I'd love you both to reflect on that when it comes to your ADHD and your partnership.

**Penn Holderness** (5:03)
Well, one of the things we've learned is that the emotional component of ADHD is not nearly as talked about as the superficial symptoms of like, oh, I'm spacing out. I think that the emotional side is something that people are understanding a little bit better. It is 100% real, not only for young kids, which you can imagine how intense that can be, but that does carry its way all the way into adulthood. I can speak for experience on that.