Ozan Tarman on What's Driving The Nonstop Rise in Gold and Tech

SPEAKER_2 (0:02)

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio, News.

Joe Weisenthal (0:18)

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Weisenthal.

Tracy Alloway (0:22)

And I'm Tracy Alloway.

Joe Weisenthal (0:24)

Tracy, every day feels like stocks and gold go up. Every day, stocks and gold, and stocks and gold. It's just, it's relentless.

Tracy Alloway (0:33)

I'll tell you what, it's good for anyone invested in an index fund and a bunch of gold coins that their dad gave them.

Joe Weisenthal (0:38)

Yeah, good for you.

Tracy Alloway (0:38)

Yeah, thank you.

Joe Weisenthal (0:40)

The Tracy Alloway portfolio doing very well.

Tracy Alloway (0:42)

Yes. No, you're absolutely right. And the big thing about this is, it's not really supposed to happen, right? You're not supposed to see stocks shoot up because of optimism about the future while gold simultaneously goes up because gold traditionally is the sort of dour, yellow rock as you like to describe it, which usually signals something bad is about to happen.

Joe Weisenthal (1:04)

I'm going to relent. I'm going to relent on something.

Tracy Alloway (1:06)

Are you a gold bug now?

Joe Weisenthal (1:07)

No. Well, I'm going to relent on something.

Tracy Alloway (1:10)

Okay. Here we go.

Joe Weisenthal (1:11)

I admit that gold is a metal. This is my big cave.

Tracy Alloway (1:15)

It's no longer a rock.

Joe Weisenthal (1:16)

Yeah, this is my big cave. I used to say, those yellow rocks. You know what? I'll acknowledge it's a metal.

Tracy Alloway (1:21)

If it's a metal now, will you admit that it has industrial application?

Joe Weisenthal (1:26)

Yeah, but they're very minor. And this is also, I will not acknowledge that there is a, it is mainly a store of value or perceived to be. And when people are fearful, when people are mistrustful, when people don't trust fiat currencies of the governments, and there's all kinds of reasons to be skeptical about the governments that issue paper currencies, I understand why people want to hold this metal, that people have used as money for thousands of years.

Tracy Alloway (1:51)

I'm going to take you back to the jewelry district in New York and get you more excited about gold again.

Joe Weisenthal (1:55)

No, and I'll just say on gold, I loved it. And I wore that big chain when we went to the diamond district, and I wish I'd bought it. Like, because now, that's like my figure of grace. It was like $35,000 gold necklace, and today would probably be a $45,000 or $50,000 gold necklace.

Tracy Alloway (2:11)

Imagine how much that diamond encrusted Furby would be worth.

Joe Weisenthal (2:14)

This is the thing they don't tell you about gold, by the way. If you spend $10,000, this is my crank take on gold. That's not crank. If you spend $10,000 on a gold necklace, they give you a $10,000 gold necklace.

Tracy Alloway (2:25)

Yes.

Joe Weisenthal (2:26)

It's free. It's like you spend $10,000, they give you something for a $10,000 bag. In a sense, it's a free transaction.

Tracy Alloway (2:33)

No, you get two things. You get something to wear and an investment.

Joe Weisenthal (2:36)

Yeah, you actually, yeah. I wish I had had this realization when gold was like $200 an ounce, but anyway, it took me a while.

Tracy Alloway (2:42)

We'll make a gold bug of you yet, I'm sure.

Joe Weisenthal (2:45)

So these are really exciting wild times in the market. And the last time we talked to this guest was another wild time and an exciting time in the market. That was, of course, April. We do, in fact, have the perfect guest to try to understand everything that's happening all around the world in Global Macro. We are going to be speaking with the vice chair of Global Macro at Deutsche Bank, Ozan Tarman. Ozan, thank you so much for coming back on Odd Lots. Last time we talked to you, we were in London. This time you're in New York. So thank you for coming to visit us.

Ozan Tarman (3:13)

Very good to be in New York. I love to be on this show. I'm honored to be invited again. Unga, Macrodiners, this is the highlight.

Joe Weisenthal (3:21)

Thank you.

Ozan Tarman (3:22)

By the way, I was going to bring my United Amamim Jersey. Dear Joe really looks like him and some baklava for Tracy, but couldn't find in the airport. Next time.

Joe Weisenthal (3:31)

Well, that's a good reason to do another future episode. Actually, we talked a lot about gold at the beginning, but I don't want to first ask about gold. Is Nvidia swallowing the entire US or maybe even global economy?