Odd Arne Westad on how China First Joined the Global Capitalist Economy

Joe Weisenthal (0:03)

Bloomberg Audio Studios.

Tracy Alloway (0:05)

Podcasts, radio, news.

Joe Weisenthal (0:21)

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Weisenthal.

Tracy Alloway (0:26)

And I'm Tracy Alloway.

Joe Weisenthal (0:27)

Tracy, now that I'm a middle-aged old man, I don't know, I've been getting really into reading history lately.

Tracy Alloway (0:34)

Is it Roman history?

Joe Weisenthal (0:36)

No, no, it's actually worse than Roman history. I've been reading a lot of 20th century history, and the problem, well, one problem, there's a bit of a diversion, but one problem with reading 20th century history is that I'm eventually gonna have to get around to really learning what World War II is all about, and then I'm gonna be a 50-year-old man reading World War II.

Tracy Alloway (0:53)

You have to fulfill your destiny, Joe.

Joe Weisenthal (0:55)

I know, so I'm gonna be a 50-year-old man in a few years reading World War II books and watching World War II documentaries. So yes, I've been reading a lot of 20th century history lately.

Tracy Alloway (1:04)

You know how you know that you are really old? It's when you start reading 20th century history books and realize that you were there and sort of participating in that time period.

Joe Weisenthal (1:14)

Well, it's so funny that you mentioned this because this is increasingly dawning on me when I read history. And again, slight sidetrack, but I mentioned before a couple of times. I lived in Malaysia for a year in 1989 and 1990 And I discovered in reading history recently that I don't know if they call it the Malaysian Civil War, but the ultimate peace agreement between the Malaysian government and the Communist Party of Malaysia was signed in 1989 that ended that conflict. And so I was there. I had no idea. But reading history...

Tracy Alloway (1:44)

Great school Joe was living through history.

Joe Weisenthal (1:46)

I was. And it sort of reminds... I think this is an important thing that I've realized, reading more history, is that the modern world, as we know it, is so young. It's basically like the length of a person's life. Like, depending on where you want to start it. Like, we're just getting started here.

Tracy Alloway (2:00)

So the history we're going to be talking about specifically...

Joe Weisenthal (2:03)

We're being really vague here, aren't we?...

Tracy Alloway (2:04)

is China.

Joe Weisenthal (2:05)

Yes.

Tracy Alloway (2:05)

And I was thinking about this because the first time I went to China was in 1994 And it was completely different to how it is now. Like, there were still rickshaws on the street, friendship stores existed. Friendship stores still existed in the early 2000s when I was there. And I don't know... Do you know what a friendship store is?

Joe Weisenthal (2:25)

I can guess. I don't know.

Tracy Alloway (2:27)

It's like where foreigners were basically allowed to go and like purchase specific goods. They had a lot of like tourist tat and stuff like that. But if you went to a friendship store in Beijing in the early 2000s, it was basically like going to the East Block. It was like a full employment program where you would find a salesperson on the floor and you would say, I want this item. And then they would give you a little like token or receipt. And then you would take that to the cashier and pay. And then someone else would bring the item to you. Sounds kind of nice. So that was in the 2000s. And now when I think about Beijing, like it has changed completely. Like stuff that used to be one story neighborhoods full of bars like Sanlitun is now like luxury shopping centers.

Joe Weisenthal (3:13)

Totally. So this is the other thing too, which is that we talk a lot about China right now for obvious reasons. But I kind of feel that like if we're going to talk about today, there probably is some justification for like how we got here. And I have to admit, you know, my understanding is really very rudimentary and limited. Like in my mind, it's basically like Mao died. Deng Xiaoping liberalized the economy. That was the economy plugged into global capitalism.

Tracy Alloway (3:40)

And then idiot sunflower seeds happened.

Joe Weisenthal (3:42)

Yeah. And then they allowed a business. And then they entered the WTO in here. And I would say I know basically four facts about the history of China. And those, you know, 1978, WTO now. So maybe that's just three. And so I actually think it's important to sort of deepen our understanding of how we got to the China that we are so deeply connected to today.