'Never a good idea': Security expert slams Saudi nuclear deal

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
Support for Here & Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com.
WBUR podcasts, Boston.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:20)
This agreement in particular, as it's been discussed thus far, does give priority access for American companies and the Saudi nuclear energy program, which will ultimately benefit American industry workers and supply chain. So the deal that has been discussed thus far, and will continue to be discussed, absolutely puts America first, and that's obviously very important to this president.

**Chris Bentley** (0:39)
Why does the White House want to help Saudi Arabia start a nuclear energy program?
It's Thursday, July 23rd, and this is Here & Now Anytime from NPR and WBUR. I'm Chris Bentley. Today on the show, utility bills are rising fast. Our rate payers, aka you and me, shouldering too much of the cost burden.

**Julie Margetta Morgan** (1:13)
Power companies are making updates to their grid, they're making expansions to accommodate these data centers, and the costs are being passed on directly to consumers.

**Chris Bentley** (1:24)
Also, former employees of a telehealth company say they were under pressure to dole out prescriptions to weight loss drugs fast, even if it meant cutting corners on patient safety.

**Elaine Chen** (1:35)
This is a big concern, especially since we're going to get more and more powerful weight loss drugs coming.

**Chris Bentley** (1:40)
That story coming up in about 10 minutes. But first, the president is pushing a new nuclear deal in the Middle East, not in Iran, which had an agreement to develop civilian nuclear power that Trump ripped up during his first term, but in Saudi Arabia. Whereas that Iran deal required snap inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency, Trump is offering the Saudis help developing nuclear energy and possibly future uranium enrichment in the country with just a bilateral safeguards agreement. So the US, not the UN, would be the ones making sure the Saudis don't pursue nuclear weapons.
The Trump administration says it's making the offer to entice Saudi Arabia to sign a peace deal with Israel.
There were nuclear negotiations with Saudi Arabia under the Biden administration with the same goal of softening their stance on Israel. But Trump's announcement Wednesday came as a bit of a surprise to many watching the region, including Jim Walsh of MIT. He stopped by our studios in Boston to share his initial thoughts with Indira Laxmanan.

**Indira Laxmanan** (2:52)
The US's closest ally in the Middle East, Israel, and US nuclear non-proliferation experts have raised serious concerns about it because of the risks of an arms race in the region and also the fact that Saudi Arabia doesn't recognize Israel. Is this deal now already at risk of falling apart less than a day after it was signed?

**Jim Walsh** (3:12)
Well, I mean, part of this is with Trump, there's always some uncertainty about how long anything will last, but when you sign an agreement, you sign an agreement, you don't unsign it. Now, there are always provisions where parties can withdraw, but this is probably more short-term message managing. Remember, Biden also had his own wacky and unwelcome plan to help the Saudi nuclear program. It contained a provision where they would have to recognize Israel. And so he's probably reacting to criticism that Biden's deal is better.
I think what's done is done, and the US is pledging to help, help, I almost said, Iran, Saudi Arabia's nuclear program, and that's where it's headed.

**Indira Laxmanan** (3:57)
Well, I guess presumably if the president decides it's not going to go through, he could abrogate it or Congress could abrogate it. But let's talk about what has been signed. NPR has reviewed the deal that was signed. It does not prohibit Saudi Arabia from enriching uranium. President Trump said today that it did prohibit that. The signed deal also does not include strict oversight from the International Atomic Energy Agency. So what are your biggest concerns, Jim, about the terms of the deal that we know of that have been signed?

**Jim Walsh** (4:29)
Well, as I understand the deal, there's going to be quote a study, unquote, of whether enrichment is a good idea. That's a two-year study which just coincidentally ends before Trump's term in office. So they have a two-year study, and then they jointly recommend whether to go forward with enrichment or not. My guess is Trump will recommend that they do go forward with enrichment, if the promise is to build a lot of US plants. And there we go. We're off to, you know, let's see how Israel, Iran, which already has a nuclear program but hasn't crossed the nuclear weapons threshold, how Turkey reacts.