Merging Man and Machine? The Neurotech Frontier with Dean W. Ball

**Erik Torenberg** (0:01)
Hey everyone, Erik here. We're really excited about a new AI show from Turpentine called Autopilot, hosted by Will Summerlin.
This podcast explores the adoption and rollout of AI in the industries that drive the economy, and the dynamic tech founders bringing rapid scalable change to slow moving industries. From law, to hardware, to aviation, Will interviews founders backed by Benchmark, Greylock, YC, and more to learn how they're automating at the frontiers in entrenched industries. Click on the link in the description to subscribe to Autopilot.

**Dean W. Ball** (0:31)
Computers already are neural interfaces. You don't control them directly with your brain, but they obviously interface with your brain, and you are using your brain via touch control to manipulate them. Throughout the history of technology, one of the things we see is that information technologies don't just change the way information propagates, they change the way we think.
The impulse that people have, a lot of the time, is to think, oh no, if there's an incentive to use this thing, then everybody will have to use it. What about the people that don't want to use it? I go there too. I have sympathy for those people. I think about the Amish, and I do think that there's probably going to be forms of digital Amish in the future that we need to be thinking about. At the same time, the people who want to enhance their cognition also should have the liberty to do that.
And we should want there to be more cognition in the world, especially human cognition.

**Nathan Labenz** (1:29)
Hello, and welcome to The Cognitive Revolution, where we interview visionary researchers, entrepreneurs, and builders working on the frontier of artificial intelligence. Each week we'll explore their revolutionary ideas, and together we'll build a picture of how AI technology will transform work, life, and society in the coming years. I'm Nathan Labenz, joined by my co-host, Erik Torenberg. Hello, and welcome back to The Cognitive Revolution. Today I'm very excited to share my conversation with Dean W. Ball, research fellow at the Mercatus Center and author of the hyperdimensional Substack. Dean is a kindred spirit who shares my obsession with frontier technologies and their near-term possibilities, and he's done a super deep dive into the current state of brain-computer interfaces. In this wide-ranging discussion, Dean explains the major approaches being pursued today, from the non-invasive techniques like EEG and ultrasound stimulation, to the invasive implants like those being developed by Neuralink. He gives us a sense for the current state of the art across important technical dimensions, such as the number of electrodes used in a given device, the spatial and temporal resolution that's achievable with different technologies, and the major technical challenges that still need to be overcome. Along the way, we touch on big-picture questions about the dimensionality of thought, the challenges of interpreting signal that's transmitted through the human skull, and the ethical and societal implications of being able to increasingly read from and even write to the human brain.
Could we one day induce complex thoughts or download knowledge and skills Matrix-style? Will brain monitoring become a routine part of legal proceedings or job interviews? How might the widespread adoption of cognitive enhancement change human culture and even our biological evolution?
While he maintains an appropriate degree of epistemic humility throughout, Dean's well-informed intuitions paint a picture of consumer devices that will soon provide powerful brain reading and crude but potentially useful brain-writing capabilities. More advanced applications like high-bandwidth, two-way brain-computer communication will likely require invasive implants, but the pieces there too are coming together faster than many realize.
Whether you're an AI expert looking to understand a related technology trend, a policymaker grappling with the implications, or just a curious observer of the human journey, this episode will give you a solid grounding in the emerging neurotech landscape. Special thanks to Dean for doing all the work to make this episode possible, and definitely check out his newsletter at hyperdimensional.substack.com.
As always, we welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions for future episodes. You can contact us via our website, cognitiverevolution.ai. And if you do, you might also enjoy the chance to chat with my new AI clone, which has been trained on the full history of the Cognitive Revolution and is powered by Delphi AI. For now, I hope you enjoy my conversation about brain-computer interfaces and the potential for a man-machine merge with Dean W. Ball. Dean W. Ball, research fellow at the Mercatus Center and author of the hyperdimensional.substack, welcome to The Cognitive Revolution.

**Dean W. Ball** (4:39)
Thank you, Nathan. Great to be here.

**Nathan Labenz** (4:41)
I'm really excited for this conversation. You and I are kindred spirits in that we both have had our day jobs and then we've had our obsessions with different areas of technology.