Master Self Control & Overcome Procrastination | Dr. Kentaro Fujita

**Kentaro Fujita** (0:00)
In my own research, we have shown that if we can get people to think about their whys, the purposes behind their decisions, the broader purposes behind what they're doing, they're much more likely to be able to overcome the temptation. So if there's a piece of chocolate cake in front of me and I'm trying not to eat it, if you said, oh, I'm not supposed to eat that because I'm on a diet, that doesn't have much magic to it. But if instead I'm saying things like, I need to do this for my family, I wanna look good for my children's wedding photos, or my children are looking at me, or I wanna be a good example, or all these other kinds of reasons that you might, these higher order reasons that you might have for getting healthier, being fitter or whatever, not eating the cake. We show that that increases the odds that people will avoid the cake. And we think it's because it's giving people meaning. These are higher order things that I care about, and these are what's gonna motivate me to hold out.

**Andrew Huberman** (0:50)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Kentaro Fujita, Professor of Psychology at Ohio State University, and an expert in the science of self-control and motivation.
If you're somebody who has ever struggled with procrastination, sticking to a goal, or coming up with the goals for your life, today's episode is for you. We start off today's discussion talking about the famous two-marshmallow experiment, the one where they placed kids in a room with a marshmallow and told them that if they delayed gratification for that marshmallow, meaning they didn't eat it, they would then get two marshmallows. Those experiments received a lot of attention in that they were supposed to predict whether people would be successful later in life. We talk about the criticism of those experiments, but also how some of those conclusions were valid, and more importantly, how people of any age, including you, can build mental resilience and your ability to experience deferred gratification toward your goals. We also talk about intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation. These are topics that are very misunderstood out there, but Dr. Fujita clarifies that when we receive rewards for something we are naturally inclined to do, meaning that we love, it does not reduce our motivation to do that thing. And this is an important point, and we go into it in terms of the practical steps for building and maintaining your progress on goals. We also talk about what the data say about the specific steps that are most effective to both initiate and reach short and long-term goals.
We also talk about how to get out of impulsive states and states of procrastination, what the data say about how to do that. Today's episode is really focused on science and more importantly, practical takeaways, several of which I plan to incorporate into my own life. I only wish I had this knowledge when I was younger, but now thanks to Dr. Fujita coming on the podcast, people of all ages can make great use of the information and data from his studies. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is however part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Dr. Kentaro Fujita. Dr. Kentaro Fujita, welcome.

**Kentaro Fujita** (3:11)
Thank you, really excited to be here today.

**Andrew Huberman** (3:13)
I'm super excited to talk to you. We hear so much about motivation, discipline, willpower, tenacity, but we really haven't had a modern update on the psychology of these in a long while, not just on the podcast, but I think most people have heard of the so-called marshmallow experiment, which hopefully you could explain to us, tell us what it revealed, some of the criticisms, maybe even some criticisms of the criticism. Because I think the marshmallow experiment, which everyone will learn about momentarily if they don't already know what that is, sort of stands as this symbol of whether willpower is somehow innate or whether it's something that can really be cultivated. So if you would, what is the marshmallow experiment?

**Kentaro Fujita** (3:57)
So the marshmallow test was actually a series of experiments that was conducted by Walter Mischel in the 60s to 70s to 80s at Stanford. And what happens in the classic paradigm is a child comes in and is seated in front of a plate with some kind of thing that they really want.