Mark Moss: "Retire Off Bitcoin" Strategy and How to Build Wealth in Any Market

**Mark Moss** (0:00)
The leverage is like all this dry kindling that gets built up, and it just takes a small spark to let off all this leverage, right? They've allowed the leverage to get so high, they can't allow the de-leverage anymore. This building that we're in right here, I built this building.

**Natalie Brunell** (0:11)
Wow, really?

**Mark Moss** (0:11)
And I had this building for sale for $12 million. I had an offer at $11 million, and I turned it down, and then the real estate market crashed in 2008 The bank sold it for four. Problem, I became a for-seller at the wrong time.

**Natalie Brunell** (0:25)
They have two options, save the bond market or save the currency, and I will always sacrifice the currency.

**Mark Moss** (0:30)
Bitcoin is down over 50% from its all-time high. And if you were deploying a retire off of Bitcoin strategy, it wouldn't matter to you. The goal should not be freedom from work. It should be freedom to work on what you want to work on.

**Natalie Brunell** (0:42)
What do you think it will take for capital to rotate back into Bitcoin? Mark Moss in the house, or should I say I'm actually at your house? You're in my house. This is your studio.

**Mark Moss** (0:56)
How are you?

**Natalie Brunell** (0:57)
Good to see you.

**Mark Moss** (0:58)
I love seeing a setup like this. This is a different setup than I normally have.

**Natalie Brunell** (1:01)
A little different. Well, we had that long table before. I wanted to be closer.

**Mark Moss** (1:04)
Yeah, good.

**Natalie Brunell** (1:06)
Last show we did, it did phenomenally well, crazy well, especially the part where we talked about retiring with Bitcoin. I didn't know that that was going to pop off, but everyone watched those clips and the interview because I guess everyone wants to be able to retire off their Bitcoin. So can you maybe just respond to that? Because we're in a bear market. The sentiment is really, really far down.
And yet I feel like there's still these messages that resonate with people because they're looking for ways to be financially secure, to secure financial freedom. And so what do you think it was about that retirement part of our interview that made such an impact?

**Mark Moss** (1:43)
Yeah.
Bitcoin is down over 50% from its all time high. And if you were deploying a retire off of Bitcoin strategy, like I've suggested and talked about, it wouldn't matter to you. Who cares if it's in a bear market? It wouldn't even affect your retirement strategy. So I think that's a big shocking thing for most people because they think, oh my gosh, Bitcoin is down off of its high. As you said, we're in this bear market. We're 63, 64,000 today.

**Natalie Brunell** (2:08)
Right. If I put in a million into Bitcoin and I would be at 500,000 now.

**Mark Moss** (2:13)
And it's destroyed my ability to retire. How could you recommend it as a retirement strategy when it can go down by 50%? And my response is it doesn't even matter. So I think that's one big thing. But I think back to the question that you're asking, which is, why does it resonate so much? I think for two reasons. I think for some reason, the majority of the world, the fiat virus has inflicted them to the point where they think that the goal in life is to get to a point where they can retire. That's everybody's finish line. That's everyone's goal.
I think that means, well, I typically respond with a question, which is if that was true, then why do all billionaires still work?

**Natalie Brunell** (2:52)
All super successful people are still motivated to do something, to be of service, to build.

**Mark Moss** (2:57)
So the reality is that the goal is not retirement, first of all. The reason why Warren Buffett was a CEO, daily CEO until he was 93 years old, the reason why billionaires are still working today is because there's two types of people. There's creators and there's consumers.
And the majority of people unfortunately fall into the consumer bracket. And so they have this dream of, if I'd follow this plan in some prolonged period of time, one day, what, I can sit by a pool and have someone feed me grapes or something, right? Whereas the builders, they're just here to build. And so what I would say, first of all, is the goal should not be freedom from work. It should be freedom to work on what you want to work on. So I think what happens is a lot of people are doing things they don't like.