Mariana Mazzucato Thinks We Need More Moonshots

Mariana Mazzucato (0:02)

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio, News.

Joe Weisenthal (0:18)

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Weisenthal.

Tracy Alloway (0:23)

And I'm Tracy Alloway.

Joe Weisenthal (0:24)

We're still here in Madrid, Tracy.

Tracy Alloway (0:25)

Still here.

Joe Weisenthal (0:26)

You having a good time?

Tracy Alloway (0:27)

I am. I've eaten a lot of ham and cheese.

Joe Weisenthal (0:30)

And me too.

Tracy Alloway (0:30)

That's pretty much all I can say.

Joe Weisenthal (0:31)

Yeah, I'm going to turn into a Hamon by the time I leave. I'm certain of that. So we are at the Bloomberg CityLab conference. You know, it's funny, like, the mayoral level of politics is not something we spend a ton of time typically on.

But I would say, like, it definitely, you know, when I think about it, when I'm, like, here and, like, listening to a lot of the conversations, it's just so obviously, like, connected to a lot of the themes we talk about, because so much of our discussions have to do with something related to, you know, innovation or technology or implementation of policy and how it spans both the public and private sectors.

Tracy Alloway (1:07)

Yeah. I mean, also, when I think about a lot of Odd Lots topics, like AI or housing affordability or inequality, like cities, I think CityLab actually used this phrase at one point, but cities are really at the front line of all of those challenges, right? And trying to implement policy in that local level in a way that's like very easy to see and observe and also to judge.

Joe Weisenthal (1:28)

Totally. Yeah. No, it's exactly right. And I think maybe there's something like, you know, I don't, it feels like to some extent the mayoral level of any governance is sort of maybe the least ideological and the most like, you know, we talked to the Baltimore mayor, for example, and so much of his theme was just like talking to other mayors, like what's working in your town, what's working in your city and what's not working and so forth. They all have such similar challenges. So many things have been like repeated, you know, one time after another that like they all can sort of speak the same language and all have the same issues.

Tracy Alloway (2:02)

Yeah, it's funny. You kind of get that local idea swapping at a mayoral level that I cannot imagine necessarily happening in national politics. Can you imagine Trump and Xi Jinping getting together and be like, oh, we implemented this really cool like national transportation program? Have you tried it? Yeah.

Joe Weisenthal (2:18)

You know, you hear like these stories, right? Of a governor, a governor sometimes or a mayor will go to like another country. It's like, oh, we can like learn from what the city did on transit or whatever. But no, you don't really hear that the same way at the real national level, which is where a lot of our discussions tend to sit.

Tracy Alloway (2:34)

Absolutely.

Joe Weisenthal (2:35)

Anyway, I'm really excited about today's episode. We're going to be speaking with a guest who I would say like since we've been doing, Odd Lots is actually one of the more frequently requested.

Tracy Alloway (2:45)

Long requested.

Joe Weisenthal (2:46)

So it's sort of a failure on our part that we just never made it happen before. But yes, someone whose whole career is dedicated to a lot of Odd Lotsy things.

Tracy Alloway (2:57)

Well, we waited until we could do it at Madrid at the perfect venue.

Joe Weisenthal (3:00)

We didn't want to just do it at any other random venue. Yes, it was all very strategically designed. But we really do have the perfect guest, someone that a lot of guests have wanted to listen to, hear from for a long time. We're going to be speaking with Mariana Mazzucato, Professor at University College London, founder of the Institute for Public Purpose, author of several books sort of touching on these themes of technology, public sector, private sector, the roots of innovation, how these things actually get deployed. So Professor Mazzucato, thank you so much for coming on Odd Lots. I'm thrilled to finally have you on.

Mariana Mazzucato (3:30)

Great to be here, finally.

Joe Weisenthal (3:32)

Finally. It's completely our fault for not having made it happen sooner. But what are you doing here? What brings you to this particular conference?

What attracts you here?

Mariana Mazzucato (3:44)

Well, first of all, I'm here also because the government of Spain is really kind of leading the way in many areas that I'm very interested in, especially the kind of new economic thinking that needs to underpin how we rethink government.