MAGA's Plan to Make Britain Look Broken and Iceland's 'Brexit' Moment

**Alastair Campbell** (0:01)
The people of Iceland have spoken, and it is a no to reopening talks about possible future European Union membership. The result is a blow to the EU, which was hoping that Iceland could spark a reboot in its stalled enlargement process. And it's a victory for the kind of negative campaigning and disinformation that won Brexit here. The news will please Vladimir Putin, for whom a weakened, divided Europe is a strategic goal.
And that a country of 400,000 people should even matter to a nuclear-armed giant like Russia underlines just how fragile the geopolitical landscape is right now. That's why Andy Burnham, despite wanting to be a domestic prime minister, made his recent trip to Kyiv and promised help with longer-range missiles, prompting Moscow to say the UK is now a bigger enemy than ever. It's also why Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney will be attending the EU's State of the Union event this month, building ever closer relations with Europe as the hostility from Trump's USA deepens. But if Iceland won't even agree to talk about talks, what chance do the current accession candidates, let alone the UK, Ukraine or Canada, have of joining an EU strong enough to rival an assertive China and a wayward, unreliable America?
Welcome to The Rest Is Politics Question Time with me, Alastair Campbell.

**Rory Stewart** (1:32)
And with me, Rory Stewart.

**Alastair Campbell** (1:33)
And Rory, we're going to talk about Iceland referendum, which is about UK Russia. We're going to talk about why MAGA tries to tell everybody that Britain is a basket case. We're going to talk about party conferences and maybe have a little bit of fun at the end. But let's start in Iceland. Georgi, did Iceland's Yes campaign make the same mistakes as the Remain campaign in the UK?
What does the result mean for European unity? And Brian in Reykjavik wants to know whether we were pleased that Nigel Farage congratulated Iceland on his referendum result. A dubious honour, I'd say, says Brian, given he was one of the principal architects of the Brexit fiasco. And it was interesting that Farage's response was to say, well done Iceland on voting to keep your independence. So that means, Rory, that independence means you can be in the EEA, you can be in Schengen, and you can have access to the single market. Fantastic. Let's have it for Britain.

**Rory Stewart** (2:26)
A lot to dig into. But I think, first thing is that I think it's disappointing because this was a vote which was just about whether to negotiate or talk at all.
And you and I are passionate about trying to build up middle powers and bring countries together. And this is an example of a wealthy country that's already very close to the European Union, not even being prepared to vote to consider negotiating about a closer relationship. It's not the end of the world, and I think we can get on to why it's not the end of the world, and why actually there might be a silver lining to it. But I think we begin with a sense of disappointment. And also maybe being a little cheeky, I wonder, listening back to the interview that we did with the Icelandic Prime Minister when you were in Iceland, whether actually part of the problem isn't leadership. I mean, this was relatively close. Again, it was not far off a 5248 result. I did not feel that your friend, the Icelandic Prime Minister, was really putting heart and soul into getting this across the line.

**Alastair Campbell** (3:30)
I think she would disagree with that because I think her strategy, and this came through in the interview, our interview was kind of the first big international, it was about the only really big international thing that she did. I think she was using the hour that we had to set out some of the arguments, but also the nature of the campaign. Part of her thinking was that the Icelanders are not ready just to be told, do as you told, come with me, I'm the leader. She had to go out there and she did tons and tons of quite small meetings in fairly rural remote places. But I think I wonder where I might meet you halfway. I wonder if part of her thinking was, if we lose this, I don't want people to think this is a massive personal blow.
I think I said to you at the time, I was a little bit worried that that means you don't do everything you might maybe do to win.

**Rory Stewart** (4:26)
Of course, the other side is very organized, well-funded, very passionate. That was definitely the true in the Brexit campaign, that if the people advocating for it are a bit technocratic, lukewarm, well, it's not going to be the end of the world either way, and the people against it are absolutely take back control, red-blooded, they're going to take our fish. A lot of this was about fish, wasn't it? 45% of Iceland's exports of fish and they were worried that they'd lose control of their fishing quotas. No, I think when something's that close, presumably, you do, I'm sure you do, despite your great affection for the Icelandic primacy, you are somebody who believes in political leadership. I'm sure you would say to me that the right campaign with the right leadership could make that 2% difference to carry it across the line.