Made in USA

Sarah Gonzalez (0:00)

The idea started out, I have a four year old and a one year old, but when I had my first baby, I remember she would just be like laying on my chest or in my arms or on my lap. And you know, I used to buy like really kind of crappy fast fashion clothes. Like I just like grew up shopping at like the $5 store, which I loved. And I remember being like, oh, I really want to buy at least like good t-shirts so that her little face and her little mouth that she sleeps on me is like on something that I can feel good about her like laying on. So then I set out for like a year and a half to try to find a t-shirt that I could feel good about. A t-shirt that looks good, that feels good, that is good for the environment. And then ideally the last layer was like good labor practices.

Avery Trufelman (0:52)

Sarah Gonzalez usually covers economics.

Sarah Gonzalez (0:54)

I mean, I don't cover fashion.

Avery Trufelman (0:56)

She's a reporter and host of the NPR podcast Planet Money.

Sarah Gonzalez (0:59)

We're an economics podcast and we're like fun and narrative.

Avery Trufelman (1:04)

So Sarah found herself in a pickle that a lot of us might relate to, which is this eternal question. How do we buy clothing ethically? Is that even possible?

Sarah Gonzalez (1:17)

I mean, it's so hard to be a good shopper, you know? And then you have like children and they grow out of things and so you have to buy them more things. I'm like a bad consumer, like where should I buy this t-shirt that I can feel good about? And then I did an interview with a remarkable woman. Her name is Aisha Baron Blatt. She's the CEO of this group called Remake. Their whole thing is like we want to like remake the fashion industry. I was asking her like, you tell me, like, where do you shop? Like you've dedicated your life to this. So like, what do you do?

Aisha Berenblatt (1:48)

You know, there are certain companies that I like very much, but for the most part, for the last decade, I'd say I've bought very little. Like you come see my closet, and there's, you know, six classic pieces. I do a little rental, a little vintage.

Sarah Gonzalez (2:03)

Wait, wait, wait, wait. You have like six pieces of clothes in your closet?

Aisha Berenblatt (2:08)

Yeah, yeah, six dresses, that's it.

Sarah Gonzalez (2:11)

So she has six pieces of clothing that she like owns, and I was like, oh my gosh, like this is kind of like the moment when I was like, what? And she like rents, she rents clothes and does like that kind of thing and thrifts and like swaps with her friends.

Aisha Berenblatt (2:25)

I just, I know too much to want to have very much from this industry.

Sarah Gonzalez (2:30)

I know too much to want to have very much from this industry. I don't think she was like preaching, like this is what you should do, or that even she is the best consumer ever. I think the short answer was basically, you cannot buy your way out of this problem of bad labor conditions, bad for the environment, like buying clothes is not gonna solve the problem.

Avery Trufelman (2:58)

Not even if those clothes were made in the USA.

Sarah Gonzalez (3:02)

Who doesn't like the idea of things being made in America? I mean, not for like patriotic reasons, just like made in the USA has to be like the first step, like we're getting to better labor conditions and better for the environment. And she was like, why would you think that? Like where did you get that from? And I was like, I don't know. Like isn't that like the goal is made in the USA?

Avery Trufelman (3:23)

Made in the USA is not the bastion of virtue that Sarah imagined it was. And that I imagined it was, honestly. But I had no idea what the garment industry in the United States actually looks like.

Sarah Gonzalez (3:36)

I remember being like, where are the garment factories? Like where do you, like I've never seen one. I've never been like, oh look, they're making clothes there. Like ever. I used to live in New York City. I never like stumbled upon these things in any real way. And most of them are like tiny, tiny operations. Like 76% of our garment factories in the US have less than 10 workers because they're like so hidden. You can't even, you don't even know where they are. Like I went to some garment factories and I would show up and I would be like, this is like a house on a street with all the other houses. But technically it's a garment factory, but it just, you couldn't tell.