Lindsay Clancy's Father Couldn't Watch What Happened Next

**Tony Brueski** (0:01)
This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Drake.

**Robin Drake** (0:08)
Want to go to another area here. The prosecution is still presenting its case against Lindsay Clancy. But after three weeks in Plymouth Superior Court, the jury has watched a mother break down, heard her diary entries read aloud, and sat through autopsy testimony about three children. Criminal defense attorney Bob Motta, and host of the podcast Defense Diaries, is with us from Boston. He's been in the courtroom all week watching this. The prosecution is getting close to wrapping up. We know that.
Reddington's going to have his chance to present his side of the case. He's been doing a fabulous job on Cross so far, I think, of presenting it. But Bob, in your opinion, what does he still need to educate the jury on? That maybe there's some holes that are missing. There's a lot of education, it feels, that needs to be done in this case. Just watching our comment section, watching people's reaction, there's either an understanding of this or almost a willingness to not understand this. Almost an intention of not trying to understand this at a deeper level. I got to imagine there's some jurors in that box that may be in that same mindset. Where does he need to go when the stage is his? All right.

**Bob Motta** (1:27)
So, Todd, do me a favor. 1125 Gorgoruga.
It's a mouthful.

**Robin Drake** (1:35)
It's also a new cheese. I'm having it on my salad this afternoon. It's delicious.
A little nutty.

**Bob Motta** (1:43)
This comment perfectly encapsulates what the issue is for Kevin Reddington, OK? Because this is it.
And this is no, I'm not making any kind of...

**Robin Drake** (1:56)
It's not a disparagement.

**Bob Motta** (1:58)
It's really not a disparagement. I'm not making any kind of character judgment on Gorg. She needs to be locked up for life, protect other kids, regardless of the factors which led to the triple murder. Now, you are not alone, Gorg.
There are many, many, many, many people out there that feel that exact...
That is the challenge that Kevin Reddington is faced with. For the Gorgs that are on the jury, who are coming into this with, I don't care what caused her to do it, she did it. And nothing that you're going to say to me, nothing that an expert or some talking head that's going to be on the stand, that's been paid by the defense, is going to convince me that she doesn't need to be punished. Because this, it's the exact reason why lawyers call the insanity defense and Massachusetts, they call it lack of criminal responsibility.
It's the defense of last resort. And it's because we as Americans have an incredibly difficult time uttering those words. Because people cannot focus on anything other than the act. Now, Gorg, if you were on the jury, and you were to maintain your mindset, even though the Commonwealth doesn't meet their burden, and they're not going to be able to, because what's going to happen is you're, when the Commonwealth rests, I believe on Monday, people are going to be like, well, where's the case? Well, that's not the case. The defense would have stipulated to all of that. There is no question. I see the Patrick Clancy bullshit in the chat. That didn't happen. I'm just, I'm telling you, trust, trust Lindsay's lawyer. Kevin Raines has been doing it 50 years. The guy's a legend. It's like watching Matt Locke in the courtroom. It's left a real life version of it. If you don't think that he thought about being able to point the finger at Patrick, you're out of your mind. Nothing slips by that guy. It doesn't exist in the world as a real thing. His client did it. So that's what we have to contend with.
And all the focus on the Patrick shit is taking the focus away from what needs to be happening on this trial, which is the mental health care system, the health care system, postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis. Postpartum depression is not even in the DMV or the DSM.

**Robin Drake** (4:31)
DSM.

**SPEAKER_4** (4:32)
DSM.

**Robin Drake** (4:33)
DSM-5.

**Bob Motta** (4:34)
You know, like that's stunning to me.
You know what I'm saying? So, that challenge of being able to get people to understand that if somebody's lost control of their mind, to the extent where they have no ability to talk themself out of what's happening, because what's happening in their mind is their new reality. It's literally a different person within the vessel, which is the body, intellectually. The mind has become something else. And to get people to the point where they're willing to say, all right, I understand what happened here, and I'm willing to apply the law, because that's where I was getting to, Gorg, you'd actually be nullification. You would be refusing to follow the law. So, if the Commonwealth doesn't meet their burden by proving that she's not psychotic and you're saying, I don't give a shit, I'm convicting her because of what she did, and I don't care what the circumstances are, that is in effect jury nullification wherein it's usually for the defendant, in the defendant's favor, like in a case like Aaron Spencer, like, you know, he was protecting his 13 year old daughter. He puts down a 67 year old monster who's been abusing her and grooming her, and does it again after he gets out of jail and he's got her, whatever, all that whole situation, and he goes and puts them down. If the state would have met their burden and the entire jury is like, I am not convicting that man who saved his daughter. Even though the law required him to do it, that's called jury nullification. It's where you're refusing to apply the law. And that's the problem with this case.