Lindsay Clancy Trial: The DSM Technicality That Could Decide This Case

**Tony Brueski** (0:00)
This is live courtroom coverage of the trial of Lindsay Clancy from the Hidden Killers podcast in True Crime Today.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:08)
Now, back to the courtroom.

**Tony Brueski** (0:16)
Good morning, Dr. Mack.
Now, Defense Council kept referring to your investigation in this case. Do you see your role as an investigator when you're retained to do these evaluations?

**Avram Mack** (0:36)
No.

**Tony Brueski** (0:37)
And in fact, you are evaluating first a specific question, correct?

**Avram Mack** (0:44)
That's correct.

**Tony Brueski** (0:45)
And in your evaluation in this case, you were asked to focus on the mental condition of Lindsay Clancy at the time of January 24th, 2023, right?

**SPEAKER_2** (0:56)
So, excuse me, he's able to answer yes or no, but this is direct, so I'm objecting to the leading.

**Avram Mack** (1:01)
I'm going to allow just to kind of focus to the area, and then we'll go from there. Go ahead, Council. Thank you.

**Tony Brueski** (1:06)
You can answer that question.

**Avram Mack** (1:08)
Yes.

**Tony Brueski** (1:10)
Now, were you provided the information that you reviewed?

**Avram Mack** (1:15)
Yes.

**Tony Brueski** (1:15)
And were you aware where that came from, whether it was the court or the district attorney's office or from defense?

**Avram Mack** (1:25)
I'm not necessarily aware of the origin of any of the documents that I reviewed, only that I did review them and I did possess them.

**Tony Brueski** (1:34)
And as far as the timing of when you were retained in this case, I believe your testimony on Friday was that your memory was early 2025 you were retained. Is that right?

**Avram Mack** (1:50)
Yes. I would say that the initial discussion about it was at the end of 2024 I'm not exactly sure when a Commonwealth or the District Attorney's Office exactly made the retention happen, but I understand it to be early 2025

**Tony Brueski** (2:11)
And you were provided a significant amount of information after you were retained, correct? Yes. And that information continued to come to you up until the point that you were going to meet with the defendant in April of 2026
Is that fair to say?

**Avram Mack** (2:30)
That's correct.

**Tony Brueski** (2:31)
And were you able to set up that interview with her on your own?

**Avram Mack** (2:37)
No.

**Tony Brueski** (2:38)
Is it your understanding that it had to be with the permission of the court and the parties?

**Avram Mack** (2:44)
That's my understanding.

**Tony Brueski** (2:45)
And that date in April was a date that was provided to you as a date that you could go and speak with her, correct?

**Avram Mack** (2:55)
Yes. Yes, the two dates, April 10th and April 12th.

**Tony Brueski** (2:59)
And in conducting these evaluations, is it standard or best practice to review as much information as you can prior to that interview?

**Avram Mack** (3:10)
That's correct.

**Tony Brueski** (3:12)
And you were provided records from the Tewkesbury State Hospital in the weeks prior to your interview. Is that fair to say?

**Avram Mack** (3:20)
Yes.

**Tony Brueski** (3:21)
Now, can, when you're retained on cases, this case and any other, you're paid for your time and your work regardless of what your ultimate opinion is, correct?

**Avram Mack** (3:33)
That's right.

**Tony Brueski** (3:37)
Can you explain to us the relationship that you have with the Park, Deets and Associates?

**Avram Mack** (3:44)
Yes. There are times that attorneys around the country go to Park, Deets and Associates seeking or asking if they have an expert in a particular field and Park, Deets and Associates may be able to propose one expert or another who might be able to help that attorney or law firm.

**Tony Brueski** (4:07)
And so in your relationship with that company, you are simply an independent contractor or you employed by the company?

**Avram Mack** (4:16)
Independent contractor.

**Tony Brueski** (4:19)
And Fred, I say there's not kind of a group email that somebody can send out asking for experts on all these types of areas in which you testify, right?

**Avram Mack** (4:32)
No. The Park, Deets and Associates would go to individual experts.
That they think might be appropriate for one or another case given the topic.

**Tony Brueski** (4:41)
Now, you were asked some questions about Dr. Halbron. And I think last week on Friday, you indicated that you didn't know him prior to working on this case. Is that correct?

**Avram Mack** (4:55)
Correct. I had never met him.

**Tony Brueski** (4:57)
And so is he a name that was familiar to you in your area of general psychiatry?

**Avram Mack** (5:07)
I knew that he was another expert that works with the Park Deaton Associates Group, but I had never met him.