Lindsay Clancy Trial: Prosecution's Own Expert Testifies to Months of Warning Signs

**Judge** (0:00)
This is live courtroom coverage of the trial of Lindsay Clancy, from the Hidden Killers podcast in True Crime Today. Now, back to the courtroom.
Watch your step, please.

**Prosecutor** (0:15)
Good morning, doctor.

**Kirk Heilbrun** (0:16)
Good morning, sir.
I'm going to ask you to keep your voice up so the jury can hear you. And with that, please break.

**Prosecutor** (0:22)
Thank you, your honor. Good afternoon. Can you please state and spell your name for the record?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (0:27)
Yes.
My name is Kirk Heilbrun. That's spelled K-I-R-K and then H-E-I-L-B-R-U-N.

**Prosecutor** (0:36)
What is your occupation?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (0:38)
I'm a psychologist. I am in the Department of Psychology at Drexel University in Philadelphia. And as part of that, I run two clinics. One is a clinic where I conduct psychological valuations for... Thanks, sir.
for courts and attorneys. And the other is what we call the reentry project, where we provide assessment and treatment services to individuals who are either returning from federal prison or under the jurisdiction of a federal mental health court. Or have been exonerated following a conviction.

**Prosecutor** (1:27)
And do you specialize in certain areas of psychology?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (1:33)
Yes, I do. I'm a forensic psychologist. And that means that I take the application of clinical psychology and I apply it to legal proceedings in criminal and civil matters.

**Prosecutor** (1:48)
Can you describe your training in clinical psychology?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (1:51)
Yes, I can. I received a doctoral degree from the University of Texas at Austin in 1980
And I, as part of that, I was received training in various sorts of assessment and treatment and therapy and research and things like that. And then as also as part of that, I was involved in a full-time internship between 1979 and 1980 at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio.

**Prosecutor** (2:28)
And did you receive specialized post-graduate training in forensic psychology?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (2:34)
I did. I received.
From 1981 to 1982, I did a post-doctoral fellowship in the applications of psychology to crime and criminal justice.

**Prosecutor** (2:53)
And what did that involve?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (2:59)
That involved full-time exposure to clinical work in correctional and forensic populations and also a thorough exposure to the clinical and research literature on assessment and interventions with these individuals.

**Prosecutor** (3:14)
And are you licensed to practice psychology?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (3:18)
I am licensed in the state of Pennsylvania and I'm also part of something called CIPACT, which allows people licensed in one state to practice on a temporary basis in another state.

**Prosecutor** (3:30)
And are you board certified in clinical psychology?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (3:32)
I'm board certified with the American Board of Professional Psychology, which is the oldest and most rigorous kind of board certification agency organization in the country.

**Prosecutor** (3:45)
And are you board certified in forensic psychology?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (3:48)
Yes, I'm also board certified in forensic psychology with the American Board of Professional Psychology.

**Prosecutor** (3:54)
And do you have experience in the treatment of individuals found either incompetent to stand trial or not guilty due to lack of criminal responsibility?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (4:03)
I do. Between 1982 and 1991, I was first a staff psychologist, then a chief psychologist at the Florida State Hospital in Chattahoochee, Florida.
And then between 1991 and 1994, I served as the clinical director of the forensic unit at Central State Hospital in Petersburg, Virginia. And at that time, I was also serving as an associate professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the Medical College of Virginia in Richmond. And as a part of these positions, I had responsibilities for providing assessment and treatment services myself and also for supervising such services provided by others.

**Prosecutor** (4:46)
And could you describe your job responsibilities at Drexel University?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (4:50)
I could. I teach graduate and undergraduate courses in forensic assessment and law and psychology.
And as part of the clinic that I mentioned a moment ago, I conduct forensic evaluations at the request of judges and attorneys. And I supervise individuals who are providing services to the individuals who are either coming back to the community from prison or under the jurisdiction of a federal mental health court, or who are leaving prison having been exonerated following a conviction. And finally, I conduct research and supervise students who are working in psychology and law areas.

**Prosecutor** (5:37)
And have you conducted research in the areas of abnormal behavior and criminality?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (5:44)
I have. Over the course of my career, I've published about 240 articles, chapters and books in the areas of aggression and violence, juveniles, mentally disordered adult offenders, forensic assessment, ethics, and malingering and deception. And two of my interests, two of those interests that are particularly applicable to the present case are risk assessment, which helps us understand the influences contributing to violent behavior.