Lindsay Clancy Trial: FBI Psychiatrist Reveals the Voice That Told Her to Kill Pt 1

**Tony Brueski** (0:00)
This is live courtroom coverage of the trial of Lindsay Clancy, from the Hidden Killers podcast in True Crime Today. Now, back to the courtroom.

**Trini Sprague** (0:11)
I must say that the first morning of the evidence, you should have get to the court a few hours earlier, and then now, when you get to the home office, you should have been able to get the whole trip and nothing but pictures to help you go.

**Tony Brueski** (0:19)
Thank you. Good afternoon, doctor.

**Trini Sprague** (0:28)
Trini Sprague. Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon. Can you please state and spell your name for the record?

**Gregory Saathoff** (0:35)
Yes, first name is Gregory. B-R-E-G-O-R-Y, last name Saathoff, S-A-A-T-H-O-F-F.

**Trini Sprague** (0:45)
And can you describe for us your educational background?

**Gregory Saathoff** (0:50)
Yes, I received my undergraduate degree at the University of Notre Dame, and then my medical degree, my MD at the University of Missouri, and then my residency in psychiatry at the University of Virginia.

**Trini Sprague** (1:07)
And can you describe for us your occupation?

**Gregory Saathoff** (1:11)
Yes, I'm a professor of emergency medicine and public health sciences at the University of Virginia. I also see patients in the Virginia Department of Corrections, where I also teach students, and I also serve as the Senior Psychiatrist for the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit in Quantico.

**Trini Sprague** (1:35)
And how long have you been the Senior Psychiatrist for the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit or BAU?

**Gregory Saathoff** (1:43)
Since 1996

**Trini Sprague** (1:45)
And are there other psychiatrists who contract with the FBI for that department?

**Gregory Saathoff** (1:54)
Well, certainly for the FBI writ large, there are psychiatrists who work with them. But as for the Behavioral Analysis Unit at Quantico, we sometimes have Walter Reed Fellows who are psychiatrists. But other than that, and the psychiatrist for the Behavioral Analysis Unit.

**Trini Sprague** (2:16)
And what does that entail?

**Gregory Saathoff** (2:20)
It entails working with the Behavioral Analysis Units on crimes and concerns. Whether it is with children, I'm occasionally asked to consult with the Behavioral Analysis Unit relating to children, crimes against children, also crimes against adults, and also national security issues, and in particular issues relating to threat assessment.

**Trini Sprague** (2:56)
And are you or do you consider yourself a forensic psychologist?

**Gregory Saathoff** (3:02)
Psychiatrist, yes.

**Trini Sprague** (3:03)
Sorry, I apologize. And what is the role of a forensic psychiatrist?

**Gregory Saathoff** (3:08)
Well, a forensic psychiatrist examines issues with mental illness, and it's really the interface of mental illness and the law. Sometimes that can involve criminality.
Most often, forensic psychiatrists are engaged in assessing mental status at the time of an offense or competency. But also, forensic psychiatrists can consult institutions or also treat patients within facilities such as jails and prisons.

**Trini Sprague** (3:48)
So that work that you do as a forensic psychiatrist, is that in addition to working with the Behavioral Analysis Unit at the FBI and working at UVA and teaching and your work in the Bureau of Prisons?

**Gregory Saathoff** (4:01)
Yes.

**Trini Sprague** (4:02)
And in terms of your work as a forensic psychiatrist, have you done evaluations and testified on behalf of both prosecution and defense as a forensic psychiatrist?

**Gregory Saathoff** (4:14)
Yes.

**Trini Sprague** (4:15)
Approximately how many times have you testified in courts as a forensic psychiatrist?

**Gregory Saathoff** (4:27)
Maybe 40 to 45 times, something like that.

**Trini Sprague** (4:32)
And are you board certified in forensic psychiatry?

**Gregory Saathoff** (4:36)
No.

**Trini Sprague** (4:36)
And why not?

**Gregory Saathoff** (4:38)
Well, when I finished my residency, I was interested in public psychiatry. And so I also was in the military. And so military psychiatry and public psychiatry in a teaching hospital was very important to me. As time went on, I was consulted by the FBI.
They wanted to be with me based upon a paper that I had published. And by the time I was more heavily involved in forensic psychiatry and particular assessment of individuals, by that point, the way to be board certified within forensic psychiatry would require a one-year fellowship. And at that point in my life, I just did not have the time to be able to devote to a one-year fellowship in addition to the other things that I was doing.

**Trini Sprague** (5:40)
So instead of the one-year fellowship, did you have more on-the-job training as a forensic psychiatrist?

**Gregory Saathoff** (5:46)
Yes.

**Trini Sprague** (5:47)
And as a forensic psychiatrist, have you evaluated subjects for things like competency and criminal responsibility?

**Gregory Saathoff** (5:56)
Yes, I have. And let me just say also in addition to on-the-job experience, it's important to get teaching and training. And so I've taken advantage of courses within the Institute for Law, Psychiatry and Public Policy at the University of Virginia and other opportunities as well in terms of even taking a board review course that was very helpful and quite comprehensive.