Lindsay Clancy Trial: Dr. Kirk Heilbrun Testifies — She Never Warned Anyone She'd Harm Her Kids

**Tony Brueski** (0:00)
This is live courtroom coverage of the trial of Lindsay Clancy. From the Hidden Killers podcast in True Crime Today.
Now, back to the courtroom.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:11)
This court is now assessed.

**Kevin Reddington** (0:12)
We've been seated, please.

**Kirk Heilbrun** (0:13)
Your Honor, for the purpose of the record, we return back to the trial of Commonwealth versus Lindsay Clancy. All parties are present, including the defendant and including the 18 jurors.

**Tony Brueski** (0:21)
All right.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:22)
Attorney Reddington.

**Kevin Reddington** (0:23)
Thank you. So I now have, sir, exhibit 220, which would be the records from the Women and Infants Hospital that you read prior to coming in here today, correct?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (0:37)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (0:38)
And when you read the records, would you agree with me, sir, that there was a history of Fresno Illness, which means they would ask Lindsay questions about how she felt, what her medications were, things like that, right?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (0:50)
Yes, I would.

**Kevin Reddington** (0:52)
And when you were reviewing this, did you note that she indicated that she was feeling, and I quote, because it's in quotes, crazy, depressed, numb to all emotion, end quote, quote, can't feel love, end quote, quote, my life is becoming a disaster, end quote. You saw those?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (1:14)
Are you quoting from the records or from my report?

**Kevin Reddington** (1:18)
The records, is it a two-point?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (1:20)
Okay, yes. I would agree that those were words that were used when I reviewed the records.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:28)
And when you were talking with Lindsay, do ask her what she meant by saying she can't feel love?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (1:38)
Yes, she said that she felt like a shell, she felt hollow, she felt like a zombie, she felt emotionally flat as a pancake, which is also one of the phrases that was used in those records to describe her mood.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:56)
My life is becoming a disaster, quote, can't feel fear, end quote. What did that mean? Did you ask anything like that?
Can't feel fear.

**Kirk Heilbrun** (2:07)
I didn't ask her specifically about can't feel fear. She indicated that she was having, she couldn't feel things emotionally that.

**Kevin Reddington** (2:19)
Worried that she is, quote, messed up beyond repair, end quote. That was in the records, correct?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (2:26)
That was several places, yes, including the records.

**Kevin Reddington** (2:29)
Quote, takes all the effort in the world just to breathe, end quote. That was in the records, correct?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (2:35)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (2:36)
In the interviews of friends and family, would you agree in this time frame, which was in December to the end of December, that she was having difficulty even getting out of bed?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (2:48)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (2:49)
She felt very heavy. She couldn't even walk. She had difficulty with her personal hygiene. Correct.

**Kirk Heilbrun** (2:57)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (2:59)
Was worried about how she's going to take care of her kids and feed them and watch them while Patrick was working, right?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (3:05)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:09)
And one of her goals, and I quote, was to come off meds and be able to sleep, end quote.

**Kirk Heilbrun** (3:18)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:19)
Now, Insanity, you agree with me, is very serious.

**Kirk Heilbrun** (3:23)
Oh, I would absolutely agree with you, yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:25)
That can lead to any number of things, right?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (3:27)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:27)
It can even lead to psychosis, right?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (3:30)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:31)
Okay. I asked you about the treatment plan and recommendations that the district attorney had asked you about as well.
If I may, and if you need to look at it, let me know. It says treatment plan admit to DHP. Do you know what DHP is?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (3:48)
No. Okay.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:51)
Medication recommended tapering of Sericul, starting with 200 milligrams tonight and follow up with outpatient provider. That would be who? Gelata?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (4:05)
At the time, it could have been Gelata or Tufts.

**Kevin Reddington** (4:09)
And then indicating, sir, that diagnosis that we talked about, if I may approach, can you? Let's read number one and two.

**Kirk Heilbrun** (4:26)
Number one is GAD, which stands for Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Number two is depression, unspecified, rule out due to adverse drug effects.

**Kevin Reddington** (4:39)
So, when you rule out and have a concern about adverse drug effects, one of the things that I imagine one would do is to reach out to the person that's prescribing the drugs, right?

**Kirk Heilbrun** (4:56)
It's possible. There could be other strategies as well. You could change the medication. You could discontinue it. There could be a number of things.