Lindsay Clancy Trial: Defense Grills Prosecution Shrink Over Pay and Past Rejections

**Tony Brueski** (0:00)
This is live courtroom coverage of the trial of Lindsay Clancy from the Hidden Killers podcast in True Crime Today. Now, back to the courtroom.

**Kevin Reddington** (0:12)
Hi, Attorney Reddington. Thank you. Sir, how many times have you testified in courts on the issue of criminal responsibility?

**Avram Mack** (0:26)
I would estimate one or two.

**Kevin Reddington** (0:30)
So if you estimate one or two times, would this be your third time?

**Avram Mack** (0:36)
By that estimation, yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (0:38)
Okay, so it's not by my estimation, it's by your estimation, and you would know better than me, right?
Yeah. Okay. So this is the third time in your career that you have testified on a criminal trial on the issue of lack of criminal responsibility, is that correct?

**Avram Mack** (1:01)
I know there are other times that I've created opinions.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:05)
Oh, I'm sure.

**Avram Mack** (1:06)
I'm not sure how many...

**Kevin Reddington** (1:07)
I'm just asking about criminal responsibility. That's it.

**Avram Mack** (1:11)
I'm talking about criminal responsibility. And I know there are other times I've created opinion, but I'm not sure that I've testified about them, in the courtroom.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:21)
So my question was simply, how many times have you testified in court on criminal cases regarding the issue of lack of criminal responsibility? And this would be your third time, right?

**Avram Mack** (1:35)
That is my recollection.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:37)
Okay. And you have testified in court on behalf of various governmental agencies on other matters in addition to criminal responsibility, correct?

**Avram Mack** (1:52)
Yeah.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:53)
And you are operating under the umbrella, if you will, of the Park Dietz conglomerate of a lot of expert witnesses that, as I understand, would parcel out cases to different people. Is that right?

**Avram Mack** (2:13)
There are times that I do cases through Park Dietz and Associates.
I can't speak to how many experts they have and exactly how they, as you put it, parcel things out. But over the span of my career, there have been times that I've done it when cases have been presented through Park Dietz and Associates and times that I've done it through other entities. As I discussed the other day, I had a role for the state of Maryland. And at times, and in this case, there was a criminal responsibility trial that I was a part of when I had a role for the state of Maryland. So going throughout my career, it's been multiple different entities.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:01)
You've also testified, since we're talking about it in the state of Pennsylvania, right?

**Avram Mack** (3:08)
What's your question?

**Kevin Reddington** (3:09)
You've also testified, since we're talking about it in the state of Pennsylvania, right?

**Avram Mack** (3:15)
I believe I have.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:16)
Was that a practice, or was that you individually, or one of your other entities?

**Avram Mack** (3:24)
You'd have to specify which case.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:26)
Cornwall v. Torres, 342MAL, 2021, Pennsylvania.

**Avram Mack** (3:33)
Can you cite that case again, please?

**Kevin Reddington** (3:34)
Sure. Cornwall v. Torres, 342MAL, 2021, Pennsylvania, where the court held that you, that would be Avram Mack, was apparently certified only in child and adolescent psychiatry. You lacked forensic certification to testify in the field that you were ostensibly going to testify in. Does that refresh your memory?

**Tony Brueski** (3:57)
No. Did you testify in?

**Kevin Reddington** (4:00)
Did you testify in Cornwall v. Torres in Pennsylvania?

**Avram Mack** (4:04)
I don't remember.

**Kevin Reddington** (4:06)
How about Cornwall v. Cotter in New Jersey? Remember that one?

**Avram Mack** (4:11)
No.

**Kevin Reddington** (4:12)
Do you recall that the court held on an appeal that you used an approach that fell below the standard of forensic practice?

**Avram Mack** (4:22)
No.

**Kevin Reddington** (4:23)
How about Federer-LeBron v. the Secretary of DCF, 710 Fed 3rd, 1202 in Florida? You remember that case, I'm sure, right?

**Avram Mack** (4:33)
I do.

**Kevin Reddington** (4:34)
In Federer, there was a gentleman, Mr. Federer-LeBron, who was a Navy veteran, who was a single father and had a child. And he was a member or a person that was able to get benefits from what's called TANF, T-A-N-F, temporary aid to needy families. Remember that?

**Avram Mack** (4:54)
I do.

**Kevin Reddington** (4:55)
And the state of Florida decided that because needy families consisted of either minorities or drug users or people that would not be reliable to work, in the confines of working underneath the TANF, so they wanted to have blood testing and drug testing of all the people that were temporary aid to needy families, right?

**Avram Mack** (5:19)