Lindsay Clancy Scored 23 Out Of 30 Before She Got There

**SPEAKER_1** (0:02)
This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Dre.

**Tony Brueski** (0:10)
The Lindsay Clancy case, depending on where you're sitting on this, and really almost anywhere you're sitting on it, I'm going to guess there's probably elements of this case that aren't what you think they are. There's a lot of understanding that needs to come along with this case in order to reach conclusions or opinions for that matter. I like to base opinions on fact, on reality, on established and settled science and all of that. You know, it's call me crazy, but it seems to be a good way to end up with where you want to go with something.
Today, we're going to try and get you there. We're going to try and help educate. We're going to try and help inform on various aspects of where this case is at, how it got here, and where it's going. To do just that, Shavaun Scott, psychotherapist and author, is with us along with Robin Drake, retired FBI Special Agency for the Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. Wednesdays, I love because we get to dive into psychology, into the mind of what is going on in these cases. And I want to start here, Shavaun, because this seems to be the biggest thing that many people are wrestling with, and rightfully so. I mean, unless this is a world you're well versed in, it's easy to be tripped out by things like the word psychopath, psychotic, psychotic state, all those sort of things, because a lot of people paint with a very broad brush and think they're all the same damn things, they're just different tenses of the word. They are not different tenses of the word. They are very different things and mean very different things. And let's just start here.
Help me understand, help the audience understand, help everyone understand what it is we're dealing with here. Where was Lindsay Clancy and where are people misunderstanding what was going on with her?

**Shavaun Scott** (2:22)
The terminology can be very confusing. People have to pay a bit of attention to it. And I see lots of educated people who seem to know a lot, but they don't know the difference between a psychopath and psychotic.
A psychopath is a person who has a personality type where they're callous, cold, unfeeling, they can do absolutely horrible things, they don't have a conscience, they use people. And this is something that becomes apparent fairly early in life, by their teen years. These are people who get arrested, these are people who commit murder, you know, not all of them.
But it's a dangerous person. And this is not, nobody just at age 20 or 30 becomes a psychopath.
It's somebody who, this is their personality, this is who they are. Psychotic is a brain disease. It's a manifestation of an underlying condition in which a person's thinking becomes distorted, they become disconnected from reality, they often have hallucinations and delusions, their thinking is impaired, they become very confused. It's a very uncomfortable state. So, a psychopath is who you are. Psychosis is something that happens to your brain because of an underlying condition. Often it's schizophrenia, it may be bipolar I disorder, you can get it sometimes from other physical problems, but it's really important that people understand when they're trying to come to judgments about a case like this, are we dealing with a psychopath? Are we dealing with someone who's psychotic? And Lindsay Clancy, clearly from everyone who knew her, this is not a woman who was psychopathic. In fact, she was the opposite of that. This is a woman who developed psychosis.

**Tony Brueski** (4:18)
Why is it then that the prosecution seems to keep trying to walk the jury into seeing Lindsay Clancy as a psychopath?
It feels like they're not even registering that psychotic or psychosis is a thing. They just keep trying to play with a different coloring book, going, oh, no, no, psychopath. See, keep looking. This is what she is. But they keep describing psychotic behavior. It's like they didn't quite understand the difference going into this and are having a hell of a time trying to get 18 other people to understand a concept that they don't really seem to fully grasp themselves.

**Shavaun Scott** (4:58)
It's unconscionable that they don't get it or they're choosing to mislead everyone. This is my problem with what we call the criminal justice system. It's not about justice, it's about winning for your side.
So often, they end up doing tremendous damage. We end up with people who were psychopathic and they don't get convicted a lot of the time, and the psychotic people do.
It's horrible, it's unconscionable. As podcasters, we've got a responsibility to put the truth out there, which you are always trying to do, and I appreciate that so much about this show, is we are invested in what's really going on, not what's just sensational and what's going to get everybody fired up. Because people who look at her as a psychopath, they want her to fry. They want what they're calling justice, and it's not justice, it's heartbreaking.