Is Abdul El-Sayed Bigger Than Mamdani? - with Mark Halperin

**Dan Senor** (0:00)
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**Mark Halperin** (0:22)
Tens of millions of Americans and millions in Michigan don't want the status quo, because like Trump supporters in 2015 and 2016, therefore anybody who will roll into Washington with sticks of dynamite on their calves, ready to blow the place up and start over, that's what this guy is promising. Let's see if he can win the general election. But if he does, he could be the presidential nominee, he could be the kingmaker, because he's not interested in business as usual, and he's got a real hunger to lead a revolution.

**Dan Senor** (1:02)
It's 7:30 a.m. on Sunday, August 2nd in New York City. It's 2:30 p.m. on Sunday, August 2nd in Israel.
On this podcast, we spend a lot of time on what may be Israel's most consequential election in its history, the one set for October 27th of this year. But there's another election, 6,100 miles away in Michigan, that could matter just as much for the U.S.-Israel relationship, the Michigan Democratic primary to nominate their candidate for US. Senate, which takes place this coming Tuesday. On the surface, the races between Congresswoman Haley Stevens characterize as the candidate of the party's moderate wing, and Abdul El-Sayed characterizes the candidate of the party's insurgent progressive wing. I have some personal history here. I worked for the last Arab American elected to the US. Senate from Michigan in the 1990s, and I have had a lot of exposure to the large and vibrant Arab American community in the state and its role in statewide politics. But unlike the race I worked on back in the 90s, Israel has been anything but a subplot in this campaign. Abdul El-Sayed has made it the plot. For those who have not followed Abdul El-Sayed, he has made this race a referendum on Israel and Aipac. Asked point blank if a progressive could also be a Zionist, he said, quote, every definition of a Jewish state ends up in some articulation of illiberal values, every single one. Like Mamdani, he doesn't accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.
And also, like Mamdani, El-Sayed sees the office as a vessel for something much bigger than Michigan. Leaked audio from a donor call had him describing a Senate seat as a platform to build the progressive movement nationally and bankroll primary challenges against sitting Democratic senators. On that call, reportedly saying of Senator John Fetterman, quote, you put one ogre on a pike and then everyone else gets the message. Close quote. His own primary opponents campaign has accused El-Sayed of making this race, quote, about his personal political ambitions and the other 49 states. I believe that if El-Sayed continues to rise, he will be a larger force than Mayor Mamdani for three reasons. One, he can actually run for president or join a ticket as vice president, and there would be a logical political rationale for it among Democrats. Two, like Mamdani, who has an outsized platform and bully pulpit, a US. Senator can actually have all that. Plus, unlike Mamdani, a very practical hands-on role in US foreign policy. Just look at Lindsey Graham's story or the John McCain model in terms of how a US. Senator can change the course of US foreign policy. And three, Michigan will play an important role in the Democrats' presidential nominating process in 2028 Could El-Sayed become kingmaker in the state?
If Abdul El-Sayed wins Tuesday and then wins the general election in November, he would become the most fervently anti-Zionist member of the United States Senate. Elected not from a deep blue city, but from a state Donald Trump carried twice. He will instantly attract the kind of attention that Mamdani did when he took office last year. Or approaching, perhaps, Illinois Senate candidate Barack Obama when he was first elected to the US. Senate in 2004 The persona, the agenda and the story are all much bigger than representing a Midwestern state in the US. Senate. To help us understand how we got here and where things are going with this race, I'm joined by Mark Halperin, veteran political journalist from ABC News, from Bloomberg News. He's host of the must watch twice weekly political podcast Next Up and editor in chief of 2Way in the Morning Meeting, which is his daily interactive political update. Mark recently published a piece in the Free Press laying out a structural versus visceral framework for how opposition to Israel became this potent a force in Democratic politics. And he's been following this Michigan primary closely. Our conversation right after this short break.