Industrial Policy and the Forgotten Side of Alexander Hamilton

Tracy Alloway (0:02)

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Joe Weisenthal (0:17)

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Weisenthal.

Tracy Alloway (0:22)

And I'm Tracy Alloway.

Joe Weisenthal (0:23)

Tracy, did you ever see the musical, Hamilton?

Tracy Alloway (0:28)

No, I didn't.

Can I just say, listeners, Joe has already asked me this question in preparation for the podcast, and he actually did a really amazing summary of all of Hamilton. You didn't sing it or rap it, which I think you should have done, but it was pretty good.

Joe Weisenthal (0:47)

Yeah. I actually did like it at the time that I saw it, and I still like if I'm in the car with my kids, it's not bad to put on. I feel like liking Hamilton, it's a little cringe now, it's very Obama here.

Tracy Alloway (0:59)

It's too mainstream for you?

Joe Weisenthal (1:01)

It's a little 2010s, it's a little bit like we moved on, but it is an entertaining show. It's not the worst as far as musicals go, many of which are very bad in my opinion. It's not the worst one.

Tracy Alloway (1:13)

It definitely vaulted Hamilton. It feels weird to say this now, but I guess it vaulted him into the public consciousness. But it's interesting because as far as I understand, and here I have to confess that I never really did US history. When I was in high school, I was in Austria and then Japan, so this is a big blind spot for me. But when I think of Hamilton now, I think of the Federalist papers, maybe the financial system.

But it turns out there's this huge body of Hamiltonian thought that is all about the real economy, and I guess manufacturing, industrial policy, development.

Joe Weisenthal (1:53)

Yeah. This is not at all in, I haven't read the Ron Chernow biography, but it's certainly not in the musical. Basically, the play or the musical, he has these rap battles with Thomas Jefferson.

Tracy Alloway (2:07)

Joe, summarize the rap battles.

Joe Weisenthal (2:09)

Obviously, Thomas Jefferson is a defender of the system of slavery, and what's important is doing the planting, and all you guys do up north is finance. But we're supposed to be on the side of finance as the audience and the First Secretary of the Treasury. But as you point out, there is much more to Hamilton than just the dichotomy of the slave-owning, plantation owners in the South, and then those of us up in New York City who just do numbers and finance.

Tracy Alloway (2:38)

Yeah. And I guess the other thing to point out is obviously industrial policy is having a moment since the pandemic and we've seen various steps and projects from the Biden administration, including the IRA and things like that. So it's kind of interesting to go back in time and consider the American historical Hamiltonian roots of progressive industrial policy.

Joe Weisenthal (3:03)

Well, and this comes out every time we do an episode, like on the CHIPS Act or the Inflation Reduction Act, etc. Someone says, well, you know, industrial policy is not this new thing in America. And they say, we did this in the past. And they sort of leave it there. But I think it's a good idea to like actually start exploring some of those historical roots of the role that the federal government can and has played in the past in channeling industries, channeling capital, channeling real physical resources, promoting domestic manufacturing. Because everyone says, oh, we always did this in the past, but we sort of have to talk more about what that past looked like.

Tracy Alloway (3:36)

Yes. So this is the episode for anyone who has ever said that statement. The US has a long history of industrial policy.

Joe Weisenthal (3:43)

We're going to go back to the very beginning. Well, I'm really excited about our guest. Like I said, I never read the Ron Chernow biography, but I did read Radical Hamilton, Economic Lessons from a Misunderstood Founder. The author, Christian Parenti, is joining us.

He is a professor in the John Jay economics program that's housed within the CUNY system of New York City. So Christian Parenti, thank you so much for coming on Odd Lots.

Christian Parenti (4:06)

Thank you very much for inviting me.

Joe Weisenthal (4:08)

I loved your book, but did you watch the musical?

Christian Parenti (4:11)

I did not watch the musical. I don't really like musicals, so I didn't say it.

Joe Weisenthal (4:15)

I have a complicated view towards musicals myself, so I totally get that. Why did you think another Hamilton book was necessary?