ICE fatally shoot two men in Maine and Texas

**Anthony Zurcher** (0:00)
Hello, it's Anthony, and you're about to hear Americast, and we're delighted to have you with us. And if you enjoy what you hear, please do consider subscribing to the podcast. That way, you'll never miss an episode. Now, on with today.

**Justin Webb** (0:13)
We need to talk again about ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, more fatal killings, all within the space of a week. This time, a 26-year-old Colombian father who had legal rights to live and work in America, a Mexican as well, had been working for three decades in the US as a builder. Neither had criminal records. Both have been shot. So big protests in Maine and in Houston, Texas, where those two shootings happened. Both men, it seems, not the intended targets. A third killing in Florida, possibly. Details still coming in. But amid all of these claims and counterclaims and calls for investigations, what is happening with ICE? How much of a priority is it for ICE ahead of the midterms to be sorted out? Does it matter politically? Welcome to Americast.
Americast.

**SPEAKER_3** (1:05)
Americast from BBC News.

**Justin Webb** (1:07)
You hear that sound?

**Anthony Zurcher** (1:08)
Oh, I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money.

**SPEAKER_5** (1:12)
We didn't start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it.

**Mary Moriarty** (1:16)
This is a big cover up and this administration is engaged in it.

**SPEAKER_3** (1:20)
This guy has Trump derangement syndrome.

**Ronaldo Salgado** (1:22)
I have four words for you. Turn the volume up.

**Sarah Smith** (1:31)
Hello, it's Sarah in the BBC's Bureau in Washington.

**Justin Webb** (1:34)
It's Justin in the worldwide headquarters in London, England.

**Anthony Zurcher** (1:37)
It's Anthony with Sarah live and in person in the BBC Bureau in Washington.

**Justin Webb** (1:41)
Just before we get to what actually happened in these two shootings, it's worth saying right at the start, just as we're beginning this conversation, there is some measure of chaos inside the Trump administration because you've got the administration telling people or unnamed officials in the administration telling people that these traffic stops, where both of these shootings seems to have happened, these traffic stops are going to be halted or suspended, at least, and Donald Trump, just now going on Truth Social to say, no, the traffic stops are really important. They've got to go on. So there's no question that what is happening, quite apart from the awful toll that it's taking of individuals in some circumstances, is also, it's really playing into the politics of the midterms and the wider questions about ICE that there are all around. So we'll get to all of that in a second. Let's kick off, though, with what has actually happened insofar as we could know it in these two cases. Sarah.

**Sarah Smith** (2:42)
Yeah, so the first one happened in Maine, and in these circumstances, a 26-year-old man, Juan Sebastian Guerrero, was shot in the city of Biddeford in Maine.
We don't have as much detail about that as we did about the cases that you'll remember from Minneapolis, because there's not as many cell phone footage and pictures to show us. But we have seen surveillance footage of what happened immediately after the shooting, and we see Mr. Guerrero being pulled out of his car by ICE officers, and it looks as though they immediately drag him down to the ground and handcuff him, saying that they were fearing for public safety rather than seeing whether he was all right, because the other thing that we've actually got images of are bullet holes through his window. So he's obviously been shot several times by the agent who then drags him out of the car down onto the ground, and he later died from his wounds. We know a little bit about the man himself. Guerrero was Colombian, he was actually authorized to work in the United States, he'd been given a social security number. And so he was not actually the target that the ICE agents were looking for. It was a mistaken identity that has resulted in his death. And unsurprisingly, there have been some vigils and protests in Maine where he lived. This is outside an ICE building in Scarborough, where you can hear one of the protest organizers.

**SPEAKER_4** (4:07)
We knew that was going to happen, but it doesn't change the fact that it breaks our hearts. That we are here today in solidarity with the Guerrero family to say you are not alone.
But we're also here to say it must be the last person in Maine that ICE kills. There is no excuse from any elected official, from the Attorney General to the district attorneys to the state police to local law enforcement. These people are killers and they must leave our state now.