How to Succeed at Hard Conversations | Chris Voss

**Andrew D. Huberman** (0:00)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Chris Voss. Chris Voss spent more than two decades as an agent with the FBI, or Federal Bureau of Investigation, where he was a lead crisis negotiator and a member of the Joint Terrorist Task Force. Chris is also the author of a phenomenal bestselling book entitled Never Split the Difference. In addition, he has taught courses in negotiation at Harvard, at Georgetown, and at the University of Southern California. As a world expert in all forms of negotiation, today Chris teaches us about how to hold hard conversations where we are seeking particular outcomes, or perhaps where we don't know what the optimal outcome could be. He talks about this in the context of business, in the context of relationships, including romantic relationships, but familial and work relationships as well. And he talks about how we should think about ourselves in the context of negotiations, so that we can all arrive at the best possible outcomes. Indeed, during today's episode, you will learn to pay attention to emotions, not just other people's emotions, but your own emotions, in order to determine whether or not you are processing the information you're hearing accurately, and equally important, whether or not you are being heard accurately, when you are in a discussion of any kind, but especially heated discussions. In addition, we discuss the role of both physical and mental stamina in the context of difficult conversations, negotiations and decision-making. Because in the real world context, oftentimes those can take place, not just within a single conversation, but over the course of several days, or even several weeks, months or years. Chris also teaches us about deception. That is how to determine if somebody is lying by asking particular types of probe questions. Thanks to Chris Voss' both breadth and depth of expertise in the negotiation process that he gleaned during his more than two decades service in the FBI, as well as his generosity in sharing that information. By the end of today's episode, you will have an excellent understanding of what the negotiation process is really all about and how to better carry out those negotiations so that they can best serve you and others. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is Plunge. Plunge makes what I believe is the most versatile at home self-cooling cold plunge for deliberate cold exposure. I've talked numerous times on this podcast about the many benefits of deliberate cold exposure. Deliberate cold exposure, especially deliberate cold exposure done up to the neck in water, can be used to achieve a number of important endpoints related to mental health, physical health, and performance. Plunge uses a powerful cooling filtration and sanitation unit to give you access to deliberate cold exposure in clean water whenever you want. I've been using a plunge for more than two years now. I can tell you that it makes it very easy to get your deliberate cold exposure at home. It doesn't require much cleaning. In fact, it's very easy to keep clean, which is essential. You don't want bacteria and other things growing in your cold plunge. Basically, everything about the plunge is made easy so that anyone, including myself, can get their deliberate cold exposure on a regular basis at home. If you're interested in getting a plunge, you can go to plunge, spelled plunge.com/huberman and get $150 off your cold plunge. Again, that's plunge.com/huberman for $150 off. Today's episode is also brought to us by ROKA. ROKA makes eyeglasses and sunglasses that are the absolute highest quality. I've spent a lifetime working on the biology of the visual system and I can tell you that your visual system has to contend with an enormous number of challenges in order for you to be able to see clearly in different environments. ROKA understands the biology of the visual system and has designed their eyeglasses and sunglasses so that you always see with crystal clarity. Originally, their glasses were designed for performance, that is for running and cycling and for sport. And indeed, they can still be used for performance. They won't slip off your face if you get sweaty. They're extremely lightweight. But I should mention that ROKA eyeglasses and sunglasses come in some of the aesthetics more typically associated with performance glasses, like those cyborg style glasses. But they also have a number of styles that you would be perfectly comfortable wearing out to dinner or to work. I wear readers at night or when I drive. And I wear sunglasses during the day if I happen to be driving into bright light or outside and it's just overwhelmingly bright. I do not wear sunglasses when I do my morning sunlight viewing to set my circadian rhythm. And I suggest that you do the same. If you'd like to try ROKA eyeglasses or sunglasses, you can go to ROKA, roka.com and enter the code Huberman to save 20% off your first order. Again, that's ROKA, roka.com and enter the code Huberman at checkout. And now for my conversation with Chris Voss. Chris Voss, welcome.