How To Earn Customers For Life

**Michael Seibel** (0:00)
Can we take a big step back? Do you like your users? Do you like them?

**Dalton Caldwell** (0:04)
Yeah.
I'm thinking that's a weird, like... That's not what they expect you to say.

**Michael Seibel** (0:12)
This is Michael Seibel with Dalton Caldwell, and today, we're going to talk about caring about your customers. Well, first, I guess...

**Dalton Caldwell** (0:19)
Yeah, let's be meta. Here we are.
Does this look different?

**Michael Seibel** (0:22)
Yes.

**Dalton Caldwell** (0:23)
We're in person. We're trying this.

**Michael Seibel** (0:25)
Where's your...

**Dalton Caldwell** (0:26)
I know.

**Michael Seibel** (0:27)
But we are really, literally in person. This is us.

**Dalton Caldwell** (0:29)
We're in person. We're not avatars. We're not in the metaverse. We're not in the metaverse right now, people.

**Michael Seibel** (0:35)
Maybe next year. We're upgrading.
This is an upgrade. Great. We had so much fun last year. We decided to do this in person. So let's set this up. We're in the beginning of a YC batch, and there are a lot of companies who are trying to get sales, trying to get new customers. Always a good thing. And we might describe some of them as flailing.
So what is the sign of a startup that is flailing when trying to get new customers?

**Dalton Caldwell** (1:00)
You know, it's like the old aphorism when all you have is a hammer, everything's a nail. And so they'll have a product or they'll have an idea, and they want to bully customers or some strategy to cram it down people's throat. They're like, why won't they take it? Why won't they take this thing that I'm trying to get them to buy?

**Michael Seibel** (1:21)
I'm trying to help you.

**Dalton Caldwell** (1:22)
Yeah.
I have this thing and it's good. What's wrong with you? Yes. You're making a mistake to not want this thing. And so that's a lot of people's first experience with sales. That was my experience. These people are dumb.
Don't they realize how brilliant my software is?

**Michael Seibel** (1:36)
Or trying to get them to feel sorry for it. Just please use this. If you could just use this thing, I'll be your best friend. And so that also translates into a lot of actions, right?
Mass emailing, right, mega spamming, the like templated email with one word of customization.

**Dalton Caldwell** (1:55)
Yeah, just quick on that.
You should always say to yourself, if I received this email that I am sending, would I respond? Because hilariously, a lot of people send a lot of email that they themselves think is horrible.

**Michael Seibel** (2:09)
Like they are positive. When I asked this question to the founder, would you respond to this email? They don't even think about it. They are like, absolutely not.
I regularly archive emails that look exactly like this. And we are like, I don't even know how to...

**Dalton Caldwell** (2:24)
Well, I think this is going to tie into the theme, where I think it's... You don't think your customers are smart or something.

**Michael Seibel** (2:29)
Yeah, we actually don't care.

**Dalton Caldwell** (2:30)
Like, hey, it's not for me, but maybe they want it.

**Michael Seibel** (2:32)
Yeah, maybe these.
And if we were to kind of unpack the psychology of why people do this, like why they are making these silly motions, I think a lot of it is based on a lot of VC marketing. I think a lot of it is customers are not an end. Serving customers is not the end of my business. Serving customers is a means to getting VC dollars. And we all know that VC dollars, that's the goal.

**Dalton Caldwell** (2:55)
Right, that's what we're here to do, right?

**Michael Seibel** (2:57)
That's all we're here to help you with, is how to get VC dollars. Right, customers.
When we were in this situation with the founder, you know, very recently, this started clicking in my head where I'm like, oh shit, like, can we take a big step back? Do you like your users? You know, do you like them?

**Dalton Caldwell** (3:15)
Yeah. And people think that's a weird, like, that's not what they expect you to say.
They're like, why are we talking about if I like my users? Like, is that relevant? Where are you going with this?

**Michael Seibel** (3:27)
These people are trying to build things for, do you like them? Now, you brought this up. A lot of companies don't like their users, right?
Any examples?

**Dalton Caldwell** (3:36)
Well, look, to speak from personal experience, Comcast, who dislikes their users so much, I think they renamed to Xfinity.

**Michael Seibel** (3:43)