How to build a better brain: The 5 foods you need to protect your memory, mood and to cut dementia risk | Prof Felice Jacka & Prof Tim Spector

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
Welcome to ZOE Science and Nutrition, where world leading scientists explain how their research can improve your health.
Every meal that you eat is the start of a remarkable journey through the body. The food you eat is broken down into nutrients, absorbed into the bloodstream, and transformed into the energy that powers every heartbeat, every movement, and every thought. But what if food isn't just fuel? What if it's essential for how your brain operates? Every meal you eat also provides nutrients to the trillions of microbes living in your gut. And these tiny organisms aren't just passengers on for the ride. Like mini pharmacies, they produce chemicals that send signals directly from your gut to your brain. And that begs the question, could what you eat shape how you feel?
When we think about mental health and brain health, most of us picture medications, upbringing, or genetics. We rarely think about breakfast. But what if the most powerful influence on how we feel is what we put on our plates every single day?
Today, we're exploring the extraordinary connection between food and a healthy brain. And joining us is someone who has helped change this conversation entirely. Professor Felice Jacka, Professor of Nutritional Psychiatry, and founder and director of the Food and Mood Centre at Deakin University. Her clinical trials were the first to show that a better diet could significantly improve symptoms of major depression, helping to launch an entirely new field of science. She has now overseen a large team of scientists in Australia, transforming our understanding of the relationship between diet and mental health. And alongside her is Tim Spector, my scientific co-founder at ZOE and professor at King's College London. He is a world leader in microbiome science, and his personal research for the last few years has been focused on how the microbes in our gut affect our brain health. Together we will explore the latest evidence linking food and brain health, understand what has changed in our diet has led to a huge surge in mental health issues. And most importantly, Felice and Tim will share simple actionable advice that can improve your mood and support better brain health. Because their research suggests you can achieve big changes without perfection or restriction.
Felice, thank you so much for joining me again on the show.

**Felice Jacka** (2:29)
Such a pleasure.

**SPEAKER_1** (2:31)
And Tim, thank you for joining us.

**Tim Spector** (2:33)
Looking forward to it.

**SPEAKER_1** (2:34)
So you remember Felice, we always kick off the show with a rapid fire Q&A, with very strict rules, a yes, a no, or if you have to, a sentence.

**Felice Jacka** (2:45)
Yeah.

**SPEAKER_1** (2:45)
Are you willing to give it a go?

**Felice Jacka** (2:46)
Yeah.

**SPEAKER_1** (2:47)
Can some people with depression be successfully treated by changing their diet?

**Felice Jacka** (2:52)
Yes.

**SPEAKER_1** (2:53)
Can eating fermented foods lead to measurable changes in our brain?

**Felice Jacka** (2:58)
Yes.

**SPEAKER_1** (2:59)
Are supplements necessary to maintain brain health?

**Felice Jacka** (3:02)
No.

**SPEAKER_1** (3:04)
Should we avoid eating all ultra-processed foods?

**Felice Jacka** (3:08)
No.

**SPEAKER_1** (3:09)
Finally, what's the biggest myth that you hear about the links between food and mood?

**Felice Jacka** (3:15)
This is up to the individual. That's their responsibility to eat well, and if they don't and they're depressed, then it's their fault.
That's a really big myth. That's really problematic.

**Tim Spector** (3:27)
I think it's the myth that it's the mood that influences what food you eat. Rather than the reality that it's the food that is the major driver of your mood.

**SPEAKER_1** (3:39)
I think most people listening to this can remember a time when they've eaten something delicious, and it's made them happy.
Before I met you, Felice, I would have thought about a piece of birthday cake, or perhaps a nice glass of wine as a thing that would make me happy. But when you came on the podcast a few years ago, you told me I should really be imagining a can of beans.

**Felice Jacka** (3:58)
Yeah. Hopefully cooked in a nice way.

**SPEAKER_1** (4:01)
Cooked in a nice way. Honestly, when I heard that, I thought it sounded crazy, right? Who would swap birthday cake for a meal of beans to actually make you happy? But after a lot of personal experimentation, I've actually come to the conclusion that you're right.
Now, I don't think I should be surprised that what you were telling me made sense, because you've almost single-handedly invented this field of nutritional psychiatry. So it's a real pleasure to have you alongside my co-founder Tim, because over the last few years, Tim has become more and more focused on this question of the role of the microbiome on mood and brain health. So I think having the two of you here is like a powerhouse. Felice, could you maybe just start by telling us how you first became interested in what seems sort of crazy that there's a link between food and mood?