How can we design our way out of Australia's housing crisis? With Anthony Burke and Tim Ross

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Just one day after Jack MacLennan's relationship fell apart, he vanished.

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I couldn't believe this was happening.

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Immediately, accusations started flying.

**Tim Ross** (0:16)
You need to cough up and you need to confess.

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But it soon became clear, there was so much more to the story. There has to be something more nefarious going on. I'm Rob Bergen. Join me as I investigate what became of Jack in the new season of Unravel.

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**Natasha Mitchell** (0:37)
Housing. It's a great Australian dream. A human right. An investment strategy. And right now, a profound crisis. One that has sparked furious debates about tax settings, government policy, urban planning and intergenerational inequalities.
Today on Big Ideas, two of Australia's leading architectural voices ask, can we design our way out of the housing crisis?

**Anthony Burke** (1:12)
I do think people are recognising the need for change, but then the optimism to me is again in this kind of moment of reinvention, that we're kind of, all of the cards are around us right now, we just haven't started reaching for them, I think. But we will, and we will soon, because we will be finding ways to move past necessity back into optimism, back into a more speculative idea of what a beautiful life in Australia could really be for everyone. I think those kinds of things are just there in front of us.
Once we get through this moment of real crisis, and it is a genuine crisis, people are living very tough at the moment for all sorts of reasons, all across the demographic spectrum. So this doesn't just impact the under 35s or the over 55s, everyone has their version of the housing crisis they're carrying around with them, right? So I think once we can get past this kind of trauma, this moment, there is a real optimism, which is kind of being sown, the seeds are being sown for that right now.

**Natasha Mitchell** (2:08)
Yes, from crisis can come great opportunity and maybe a beautiful life for everyone. Imagine that. On ABC Radio National, you join me on Big Ideas, bringing you big thinkers at the best live events. I'm Natasha Mitchell and today you know him well. If you're a fan of Grand Designs Australia, Restoration Australia, and on ABC Radio National and ABC Listen, the show called By Design. It's Anthony Burke, who is also a Professor of Architecture at the University of Technology Sydney and Comedian turned TV presenter and author, Tim Ross, who's become an award winning champion of Australian architecture, design, and culture. On TV, in books, on the stage, on Instagram. He's also an adjunct professor at the University of Canberra and an honorary member of the Australian Institute of Architects.
With Kevin McCloud, he is co-host of the podcast, Tim & Kev's Big Design Adventure. What a gig, hey?
Talking shop on Gadigal Country at the University of Technology Sydney's Curiosities Live series. Here they are.

**Tim Ross** (3:13)
Professor Anthony Burke. He was just telling me backstage that he remembers every one of his students that he's taught here in 20 years.

**Anthony Burke** (3:22)
Every single one.

**Tim Ross** (3:25)
It's off-topic, but it's important. Like, this has been one of your homes over that period of time. The buildings have changed over time. But have students changed in those 20 years?

**Anthony Burke** (3:35)
Yeah, I think they have. I think there's a different kind of mood across that generation right now that is distinct and very different to 20 years ago, certainly, but I would say even six years ago, which is probably pre-COVID.
Yeah. And we're seeing a kind of a lot of very different questions, a lot of different motivations that are coming through in the students. They're still bright, talented, enthusiastic, all those sort of great things, but the kind of, let me say, the moral compass is changing. The reasons for doing architecture, for investing in design, moving in different directions. So, you know, the big and obvious tickets, sustainability and so on, are front and centre now. They're not peripheral. They're right there in the middle. And the idea of making positive change somehow, not quite sure how yet, because we've just got here kind of thing, but that positive change thing is really front and centre, which is great.

**Tim Ross** (4:21)
Because they can see it in front of them.

**Anthony Burke** (4:24)
They're living the need themselves.

**Tim Ross** (4:26)
Yeah.

**Anthony Burke** (4:26)