How Andy Burnham can save Labour | Tariq Ali interview

Ava Santina (0:00)

Am I tough enough? Strong and stable leadership. Total rhubarb. Hell yes, I'm tough enough. Shut the fridge. Not another once. It's the PoliticsJOE Podcast.

Tariq Ali, welcome to PoliticsJOE.

Tariq Ali (0:13)

Thank you very much.

Ava Santina (0:14)

Good to be with you. How are you doing?

Tariq Ali (0:17)

Not too bad.

Ava Santina (0:18)

The last time you were here was with Ollie Dougmore. You were talking about your Winston Churchill book.

Tariq Ali (0:24)

That's right.

Ava Santina (0:26)

Yeah.

Tariq Ali (0:26)

That was some time ago, some years ago.

Ava Santina (0:29)

A fantastic eye-opening interview, but we're here to talk about your newest book today, The Neck and The Sword, but also about events in the last week or so. Fine.

Tariq Ali (0:38)

Perfect.

Ava Santina (0:39)

So let's begin with just the speech by Andy Burnham at Labour Conference. A lot of people are inspired by the words of the Prime Minister at Labour Conference the other day. What was your analysis of it?

Tariq Ali (0:54)

Well, I mean, obviously, Labour Party members prefer him to Stammer. There's no doubt about that, and they were desperate to get rid of Stammer, which they've done. The big question is, and you know Burnham is a better performer, he's a politician, whereas Stammer was a sort of zombie bureaucrat.

But the big question is, how will he be different, if at all? And the reforms outlined today don't add up to that much, to be perfectly frank with you. I mean, the central policies of this government on economics, which is key, are not going to be that different. Getting a bit of taxation into help carers, etc. I mean, fine, this used to be normal for a Labour government in this country, and not just a Labour government, a Conservative government as well. You know, finding money for care, finding money for the National Health Service.

The thing he's failed on, I think, in this speech, completely, is the condition of the utilities. I mean, the state of water is literally obscene. The filth and the rubbish that goes down, the profits that are made. If one industry needed being taken back into public ownership, it was water. The second, electricity. Third, the train system. You know, I mean, a dogma has got established in this country since Thatcher, and promoted by her successors, including Blair and Brown, that privatization was the solution to everything.

Then the Tories began that in 1979 Successive governments have carried on. Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party, proposed changes and quite honestly, they were modest, but very necessary. And one was hoping, at least I was, that they would move on this, on the question of what is the responsibility of the state to its citizens. Clean water, clean air, which we know what the situation is on climate and all that.

Making sure that people have a decent style of life. Housing is at appalling proportions. Now, the young folks can't live in London, whose students cannot find accommodation here. Elementary things, which this form of capitalism embraced by all the Europeans is totally damaged. So here were possibilities, but he didn't go too near those. I mean, so apart from getting more money for care, good.

We still have a situ, situation where the country is desperate for some real social measures that make a difference. I mean, a desperate Labour Party membership giving a standing ovation is fine. It does not echo in the country. And I think he's on a honeymoon period. And if things go on like this in six to eight months' time, Labour will begin to stumble again. The question of Europe, of mending the breach, look, Labour made, in my opinion, a big mistake when under Stammer, and Stammer wasn't the leader, but pressuring Corbyn and others refused to back the deal that May had agreed with the European Union, which would have been a reasonable enough deal, which they're desperate for now. What they can get out in terms of concessions, I don't know. But at the same time, it is worth stressing the point that Europe today, the European Union, is not even what it was five years ago. It is in a terrible mess.

If you look at France, if you look at Germany, if you look at Italy, I mean, people are beginning to react against it. But their economies are in a mess. The Germans in particular, which had the best economy, strongest economy in Europe, are in a total and complete mess. It's linked to other things, of course. But the notion that somehow the EU is a gold standard, it's nonsense, absolute nonsense. And within the EU now, there are a huge rumbling. So I hope any government can get some decent concessions on things that matter to people, like free travel, you know, no customs duty, etc., etc., and that'd be fine. The third thing he came up with is electoral reform.