How America Talks Itself Into Endless Wars

**Alastair Campbell** (0:00)
Thanks for listening to The Rest Is Politics. Sign up to The Rest Is Politics Plus. To enjoy ad-free listening, receive a weekly newsletter, join our members' chat room, and gain early access to live show tickets. Just go to therestispolitics.com. That's therestispolitics.com.

**Ben Rhodes** (0:14)
America acts like a self-interested superpower that wants to straight up move open or wants access to oil. And then we put a narrative around it that is much more grandiose. People around the world have figured out, don't believe the narrative, because at the end of the day, they're going to act in a pretty narrow self-interest. We've seen in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Libya, now in Iran, and it's led us to make mistake after mistake after mistake. No Democrat has taken billions of dollars for his family's crypto business for the Emiratis. No Democrat has taken a billion dollar plane from the Qataris. It's a scale of corruption that we've just never seen in American politics. We're being algorithmically polarized. Donald Trump has been the perfect person for that, because he knows if he gets up at a rally and speaks for an hour, he doesn't have to give a coherent speech. The algorithm will do all the work for him.

**Alastair Campbell** (1:01)
This episode is presented by IG. Now, as a listener of this podcast, you're no doubt acutely aware of the world's unstable political landscape and how it can affect your money.

**Rory Stewart** (1:10)
Exactly. It can be incredibly frustrating to feel like yet another maddening decision made in Westminster or Brussels, or dare I say Washington, can directly affect your finances. But IG can be a real help, something at least which might help you avoid losing sleep. When we lose yet another British Prime Minister.

**Alastair Campbell** (1:29)
With access to global stock shares and ETFs, IG gives investors like you the tools to build a portfolio that reaches beyond the realm of political instability. All with zero commission on investments and no annual fees.

**Rory Stewart** (1:42)
Backed by over 50 years of heritage, IG is built for investors who think beyond the current news cycle. Search ig.com to find out more.

**Alastair Campbell** (1:51)
IG, trade, invest, progress, capital at risk, other fees may apply.

**SPEAKER_4** (1:58)
Lululemon's airy, fast-drying tennis gear keeps you cool when the court gets hot. Breathing out as you breathe in. Wicking away distractions with every reach, every return. Drying as fast as you volley. So even after match point, you'll feel like you want to do it all again.
Shop tennis gear in stores and online at lululemon.com.

**SPEAKER_5** (2:20)
You want to get your backyard summer ready, but you don't want to break the bank? Wayfair gets it. Planning on dining alfresco or relaxing poolside? Wayfair has everything you need to prep your space. Shop now and save up to 70% off during Wayfair's 4th of July clearance. Score huge deals on outdoor furniture, area rugs and more. We're talking thousands of products for every style and budget. Plus, surprise flash deals July 6th. Don't wait. Shop Wayfair's 4th of July clearance now through July 6th at wayfair.com.

**SPEAKER_4** (2:48)
Wayfair, every style, every home.

**Rory Stewart** (2:58)
Welcome to The Rest Is Politics Leading with me, Rory Stewart.

**Alastair Campbell** (3:00)
And me, Alastair Campbell. We are with Ben Rhodes. This is a great guest to have at this time as we approach the 250th anniversary of the United States of America. And people struggle with the concept of American identity right now. Ben is somebody who was alongside Barack Obama for eight years as a speechwriter. Pretty good gig that, given what an orator Barack Obama was and is, but also as a national security advisor and somebody who's remained very, very active in the American political debate, not least with his podcast, Pod Save the World. But interestingly, I was up most of the night waiting for France to play Iraq, but then getting through your latest book, which is a collection of 15 speeches that tell the story of America, which were fascinating. And you have this line in there where you say, transition from Barack Obama to Donald Trump seemed dizzying at the time, but it's natural when viewed in the sweep of American history. So I can't wait to get into that. But thanks for being here.

**Ben Rhodes** (4:02)
It's great to be with you guys.

**Rory Stewart** (4:04)
Thank you, Ben. Tell us a little bit about you and what you studied and what alternative career paths you might have gone and what kind of person you were before you became this guy locked into politics.

**Ben Rhodes** (4:13)
That's a great question because I did not intend to go into politics. I actually got a master's degree in fiction writing, which a lot of my political opponents in the Republican Party have had a lot of fun with over the years. But I was working in local politics in New York. I always had an interest in politics, but I thought I was going to live in Brooklyn and be a writer and go down that path.