Historian Robert Tombs on the 1,000-Year Rivalry Between Britain And France

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Robert Tombs (1:36)

As a great 19th century French historian said, the French came to realize they were French through fighting the English, both for quite a long time now. Indeed, the French, I suppose, since the Battle of Waterloo, have been rather obsessed with the idea that they are nations in decline. The idea of European integration was to make sure that Germany was no longer a danger to France, and secondly, to make sure that France was essentially leading Europe.

So that's how France becomes a great power again. Brexit was the way of reasserting our position as a great nation. It's their great national project and has been for a long time now.

Therefore, for the British to walk away from it was a slap in the face. But it also meant that the French absolutely want Brexit to fail. In many ways, we respond to the same challenges in opposite ways.

Francis Foster (2:26)

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Francis Foster (2:51)

Historian Robert Tombs, such a pleasure to have you on the show.

Robert Tombs (2:54)

It's great to be here.

Francis Foster (2:55)

It's wonderful to have you. There are so many different things that we could talk about. We love discussing history with eminent historians like you. The one thing that we wanted to focus is something you cover in one of your books, which is the England versus France, or now Britain versus France rivalry.

Robert Tombs (3:12)

Well, it's the most fun book I've ever done, I think, by a long way.

Francis Foster (3:18)

You have personal experience. I think you're married to a French lady.

Robert Tombs (3:21)

Yes, we were co-authors.

Francis Foster (3:22)

Yes, indeed. So the rivalry is injected throughout.

Robert Tombs (3:26)

Yes, in the book.

Francis Foster (3:27)

That's right. Tell us about England and France, and the rivalry between these two, I was about to say countries, but actually it goes, it precedes the existence of countries at all, doesn't it?

Konstantin Kisin (3:40)

It does really.

Robert Tombs (3:40)

In fact, both England originally and France, and to some extent Ireland, Scotland, Wales developed identities, their own identities through the conflict. There are the Scots with their alliance with France, us with our long conflict with France, and the French, as a great 19th century French historian said, the French came to realize they were French through fighting the English. And this is in the first 100 years war. And you might say, well, why is it still kind of there? And I think the answer's fairly plain. Both France and Britain have had huge influences on world history in the last 300 years. They've been major players on the world stage. And often as rivals, indeed quite often as enemies, sometimes as allies, quite often as enemies. And they've got a bit obsessed with each other and like to see each other as opposites, though in my view, they're in some ways rather similar. And another thing is that both, for quite a long time now, indeed the French, I suppose since the Battle of Waterloo, have been rather obsessed with the idea that they are nations in decline.