Hinge: Justin McLeod (2021)

Guy Raz (0:00)

Hey, it's Guy here, and before we start the show, I recently heard a great business story from the music world. I was interviewing the rapper Macklemore, and he took me back to a time when record labels were offering him millions of dollars. And he had to make a choice, whether to stay independent with more risk and more reward, or take the upfront cash and the security that comes with that.

To hear how it played out, check out my interview with Macklemore on my other podcast, The Great Creators. Just search for The Great Creators with Guy Raz wherever you listen to podcasts. And for today's show, we are running an interview from the archives that is so full of good stories and so full of great lessons that I'm gonna stop talking right now so we can get straight to it, so enjoy.

Justin McLeod (0:50)

When we did the relaunch, my first instinct was obviously to go raise money. So I was talking to every VC, but no one would give me money. I mean, I was begging. I had this one investor that I was really holding out for, and I remember the partner at the VC firm called me, and she was like, we've never seen a company that was cool, and then went away, and then was able to come back.

And we just can't do it.

Guy Raz (1:21)

Wow.

Justin McLeod (1:21)

And I was like, Timberlands?

Guy Raz (1:31)

Welcome to How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built. I'm Guy Raz, and on the show today, how the one that got away led Justin McLeod to build the dating app Hinge, and how Hinge led him to the love of his life.

In 2019, a very distinguished, peer-reviewed academic journal published a paper about human courtships. The study, led by Stanford sociologist Michael Rosenfeld, concluded that most romantic relationships now begin online. Now, if you are, say, under 35, this may not come as a huge surprise. Pretty much everyone you know either uses or has used, or has at least downloaded some kind of dating app.

But to anyone older, say, people over 40, this study may come as a shock because most of them met their partners at churches or workplaces or school or a party or through a mutual friend or at a bar. And sure, you can still meet your future life partner in any of those ways, but the bottom line? Online dating now seems like the default, the norm, the path of least resistance. And today, dating apps alone are a $3 billion a year global business. There is an endless array of them. So how does one app stick out from another?

Well, when it comes to one particular app, Hinge, the company's tagline is designed to be deleted, which at first glance sounds like an unpromising business model. But when you think about it, what Hinge is basically trying to tell you is, we're gonna help you find the one and then you won't need us anymore. Now, like any successful business, Justin McLeod built Hinge on relationships, relationships with users and investors and employees.

But I think of all the founders we've had on the show, Justin's personal relationships and one relationship in particular, were inextricably linked to the launch and very identity of his brand. Now, I don't want to give too much away here because you have to hear his story to believe it, but in a sense, Justin's own romantic life became a kind of litmus test for the way he hoped Hinge users would approach dating. Not just as a frenetic swipe left, swipe right kind of a game, but a serious, thoughtful, intentional first step towards something lasting and long-term. And the story of how Justin essentially turned his life experience into a brand is, in some ways, so dramatic, so implausible that you'd half expect to see it on a TV show or in a movie. But we'll get there.

Anyway, Justin grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. He was an only child who attended Catholic school.

Justin McLeod (4:49)

I think I was a pretty sensitive kid.

I was a pretty scrawny kid. I was small. And so, even literally in second grade, when all the boys would be playing sports, I would be hanging out with the girls. I just, and if I had to play sports, I would usually fake an injury pretty early so that I could be nursed back to health by the girls. So I think I was, I don't know, something about me always, I wasn't a guy's guy.

Guy Raz (5:17)

Yeah.

Did that continue into high school? Like you're kind of hanging out mostly with girls or did that start to change?