Has Trump lost ‘Make America Healthy Again’ voters?

**Sarah Smith** (0:00)
Vaccines have re-entered the mainstream of American politics again this week, and that's because Donald Trump signed an executive order which is calling for fewer vaccines to be given to American children. It's just the latest attempt from the White House to try and change the way the vaccine schedule is administered in the United States, because, according to the president, it's been putting children in danger.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:21)
And I saw this early on, and I've seen proof of it, where they have a vaccination that looks like the size of a bottle of soda, poured into a little child's body, and bad things happen in many cases, too many cases, because this is an explosion, this is an epidemic.

**Sarah Smith** (0:39)
Now, Donald Trump's claims are, in many cases, factually inaccurate and without evidence, but they are something he has stuck to for years and years and has been trying to push through as policy, despite the fact his own advisers are deeply worried about this ahead of midterm elections, because it's not something that polls well at all.
So, why is he so determined to try and push through these changes when it could cost crucial votes? Welcome to Americast.

**Anthony Zurcher** (1:06)
Americast.

**SPEAKER_4** (1:07)
Americast, from BBC News.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:10)
You hear that sound? Oh, I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money.

**Anthony Zurcher** (1:14)
We didn't start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it. This is a big cover-up, and this administration is engaged in it.

**SPEAKER_4** (1:22)
This guy has Trump derangement syndrome.

**Anthony Zurcher** (1:24)
I have four words for you.

**Sarah Smith** (1:34)
Hello, it's Sarah in the BBC's Washington Bureau.

**Anthony Zurcher** (1:36)
It's Anthony right next to Sarah here in Washington DC.

**Marianna Spring** (1:40)
It is Marianna in the worldwide headquarters of Americast in London.

**Sarah Smith** (1:43)
We have convened to talk about childhood vaccines and the fact that vaccine policy is back in the headlines and back in the political mainstream in the United States because Donald Trump has signed an executive order calling for fewer childhood vaccines and recommending that the MMR shots for measles, mumps and rubella be split up rather than administered all at one time. So this is trying to end decades of federal guidance on which vaccines should be administered to children. And he's calling on states to reconsider vaccine mandates from schools.
And he did this with RFK Jr, his health secretary, standing behind him in the Oval Office. He has long cast out on the safety of the MMR vaccine and connected it to autism, as has Donald Trump, despite the fact that multiple studies have found no connection between the shots and autism.
So why is the president doing this now? Well, let's have a listen to him as he was announcing that executive order this week in the Oval Office.

**SPEAKER_2** (2:41)
For a long and far too long, long period of time, America has recommended more childhood vaccines than any pure nation, and even twice as many doses as some European countries, and even more than that. In many cases, we were requiring 72 jabs for our beautiful, healthy, lovely, delicate little children. Effective immediately, my administration is recognizing gold standard childhood vaccine recommendations for only 11 core vaccinations against the most serious and dangerous diseases along with the MMR, which hopefully will be split up. And I saw this early on, and I've seen proof of it, where they have a vaccination that looks like the size of a bottle of soda poured into a little child's body.
And bad things happen in many cases, too many cases, because this is an explosion, this is an epidemic.

**Anthony Zurcher** (3:38)
All right, I guess we're going to have to unpack a lot of what he said there because it is not backed up by science. The 72 figure that he gave, the jabs, that isn't just into infants or babies even, that's over the course of an entire childhood, going to 18 years old and that would include annual flu shots and annual COVID shots. And talking about the amount of vaccine injected in a dose is not a bottle of soda size. I think the MMR vaccine is about the size of a teaspoon.
A fraction of that, I think, actually. And so this is something that we've heard from Donald Trump for a very long time, though. I remember him in 2015 in a presidential debate talk about having a friend who had the MMR vaccine and then a week later, diagnosed with autism. He talks about not wanting to have all of these doses all at once and to spread them out. He talked about Barron and his son and how they spread out the doses for him. So a familiar theme from Donald Trump, but hearing it from the Oval Office and having to direct policy is something definitely very different. Yeah.