Guigo II: Listener Questions

James Finley (0:00)

Greetings, I'm Jim Finley.

Kirsten Oates (0:03)

And I'm Kirsten Oates.

Welcome everyone to this last and final episode of Turning to the Mystics, Season 4, where we've been turning to the mystic, Guigo II, and his book, The Ladder for Monks. This is our final episode for this season and for 2021 It's been a... I'm here with Jim. What a great season this has been.

James Finley (0:40)

I want to say too, to add that when we pick up again, to start the next season, beginning of next year, we're turning to the English mystics, we'll be going through the Clod of Unknowing and Juliana of Norwich. So we end this mystic, take a breather and start in with the English mystic.

Kirsten Oates (1:00)

That sounds really exciting. I'm looking forward to that.

In this final session, we're going to be going through listener questions, and you and I've had a chance to look at all the responses that came in, some are questions, some are compliments for you, Jim, and your teaching, and certainly the emails give us a sense of that Monastery without Walls, your vision for a contemplative spiritual community forming around these teachings. So, it's been wonderful to read everyone's emails. So, thank you for sending them in.

James Finley (1:36)

Yeah, so really.

Kirsten Oates (1:38)

Okay, you ready for the first one, Jim?

Okay, this is a question from Gary, and he says, given the first three seasons of this podcast series, as well as the Center for Action and Contemplation's alternative orthodoxy, inviting us into the journey of descent, I find myself immediately resistant to the Ladder of Monks. What immediately comes to mind is the illusion of separation, with God being up in heaven, and we humans being stuck here on earth, and with more effort and striving on our part, we can climb this ladder of ascent to where it pierces the clouds and reveals heavenly secrets.

James Finley (2:24)

I'll respond this way, about all these mystics. Let's say first of all that Guigo and all these mystics are assuming that God is infinitely and unexplainably present in and as the gift of our very presence.

And Merton says, beating in our very blood whether we want it to or not. The creation, God's self-donating act of creation is perpetual and absolute. And we are the generosity of God and of the earth, the stars, they assume that. That's the ultimate truth of our situation. But then they're saying that, and it's also true that the whole mystery of God is infinite. It's awe-inspiring, you know, there's that sense of awe, reverence in the presence of the infinite, that is unexplainably present in and as, there's all that.

But then there's also the sense in which we're experientially exiled from the ever-present divinity of each breath and heartbeat. Like it's far off, we look around like, where is God?

And not only that, in the midst of the things that happen in life, it's especially hard to find God, and hardships and difficulties and traumatizations. And so we know God is there, but like, where are you?

And so that's what they're talking about. The separation is the separation in our heart. You can call it original sin or Jesus called it blindness, the Buddha called it ignorance. So really, they're addressing that perception of estrangement. And then the path is how do we close the gap of that estrangement? So that's what they're referring to. And notice from the very first step in the ladder, God's already there helping you with it, because Alexia was hearing God talking to you personally on the very first run of the ladder of taking in the beauty of this word. And so those kind of images, I think, helped to correct that perception that there's this hierarchical distance, God's somewhere far off. And see, God's nowhere far off, but we're somehow far off from the ever-present mystery of God. And the whole path is, how do I close the gap in my heart to find that union that's always there? And so I think that perspective helps me.

Kirsten Oates (4:50)

Yes. So even before we were to take the first step on any ladder, God's already perfectly present with us and loving us and…

James Finley (4:59)

Yeah, and God's already perfectly there as the mystery that you're alive. And God's already there by endowing you with the capacity to become aware of the absence.

And then in the absence, to be aware of the longing, to consummate on us, and gives you the grace to put your foot on the first rung of the ladder like God. The whole thing is infused with the gift of God. And anyway, perspectives like that help me to overcome that understandable tendency to be worried about some far off God.