Giving Agents Computers — Ivan Burazin, Daytona

**Swyx** (0:04)
Okay, we're in the studio with Ivan Burazin, CEO of Daytona. Welcome.

**Ivan Burazin** (0:09)
Thanks for having me, man.

**Swyx** (0:10)
Ivan, you and I go back.

**Ivan Burazin** (0:12)
Way back.

**Swyx** (0:13)
I don't even know how you found, like, did you reach out for Shift?

**Ivan Burazin** (0:19)
I reached out to you. The reason was, we were just thinking about, I was one of the co-founders of CodeAnywhere, the first browser-based idea, and so we were thinking a long time of, like, local hosts should die.

**Swyx** (0:29)
Oh, yeah.

**Ivan Burazin** (0:30)
And you had this article.

**Swyx** (0:31)
And the local host.

**Ivan Burazin** (0:32)
And then I reached out to you because of that. And then we talked. And I was actually at a different job and learning about, I was a head of, like, developer experience, and you were quite well-versed in that, and actually reached out to you, among other people, like, how do we, how to go about that? What are the key things and whatnot at this point in time? And you were nice enough to take the call. And I remember I was late on your call with you.

**Swyx** (0:53)
I don't remember.

**Ivan Burazin** (0:54)
I don't remember because I was with my then, I was thinking of a girlfriend or wife at that point in time. I'm not sure. It's the same person, so that's great. And I was late because we were in Italy on vacation. And then I was late for something. I felt so bad. And you were so nice to be good about that.

**Swyx** (1:11)
The reason I'm nice is because I'm also late to other people. So it's like, you know, who's without senior? Yeah, so I have to, you know, for those who don't know Infobip Shift, there's this whole thing that you did in the past. And it was basically one of the inspirations for me starting AI Engineer, which is like, you know, I have to thank you for giving me that push to be like, oh, you can build and sell conferences.

**Ivan Burazin** (1:33)
Yeah. And I remember you asked me at the beginning to give me advisory shares. I was so focused on what we're doing. I said no, and I should have took the advisory share.

**Swyx** (1:40)
So I'm sorry.

**Ivan Burazin** (1:41)
But anyway.

**Swyx** (1:42)
We're not venture backed, you know.
Anyway, so I think what's impressive about you is that CodeAnywhere is the thing that you've been trying to build. And, you know, you kind of put it on hold and came back after InfoBip. Just give us the story, the story and the origin story going into Daytona. Sure.

**Ivan Burazin** (2:03)
Like really way back, me and my co-founder have been together. I've said this multiple times. It's like we were married and divorced and married. Some people actually asked me is, is my co-founder my partner? Like they thought it literally. It's not literally. But we have done multiple companies together. And to your point, we had this shift where we went from the CodeAnywhere to the conference called Shift, and then back to Daytona. We originally started stacking servers, doing like virtualization in the early 2000s and, you know, routers and doing basically all these things at a foundational level. And that was a services company which we sold to focus on what my co-founder actually invented, which was the very first browser-based ID, right?
I say the first before us was actually Heroku. They did it for a very, very short time until they became Heroku.
But outside of them, we were the only one.

**Swyx** (2:50)
And it was Cloud9.

**Ivan Burazin** (2:51)
There was Cloud9 that came out slightly after us. There was Replit, which came out when we stopped doing it. Replit came out and they have been successful since then, which is great. There was Nitrous IO. There was quite a few that existed in time, but it was like too early. But the interesting part is that we at that point in time, because there was no VS Code, for those that still remember VS Code, there was no Kubernetes and Docker had just started when we, or I'm not sure if it was even public at that point in time. So we had to build everything into the whole stack ourselves.
That was the key learning that we brought into and that we've been using in Daytona today. It was super early. There's about 3 million people used CodeAnywhere. It was slightly, it was angel-backed, more than venture-backed. We ended up paying everyone back because it didn't have that sort of scale. But 3 years ago, we started something similar with Daytona, which is not what we were, what we are today. But it was automating dev environments for human engineers, basically the underlining stack of CodeAnywhere.