Gerry Adams on Andy Burnham, the far-right, and the breakup of the UK

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
Am I tough enough? Strong and stable leadership.

**Gerry Adams** (0:02)
Total ruba.

**SPEAKER_1** (0:03)
Hell yes, I'm tough enough. Shut the fridge. Not another once.

**Gerry Adams** (0:07)
It's the PoliticsJOE Podcast.

**SPEAKER_1** (0:11)
Gerry Adams, welcome to PoliticsJOE.

**Gerry Adams** (0:14)
Hiya, Sean.

**SPEAKER_1** (0:15)
Were you-

**Gerry Adams** (0:16)
Welcome to Belfast.

**SPEAKER_1** (0:17)
Thank you very much, it's a pleasure to be back. To kick off, we just have a chat. We're talking now a couple of days before Keir Stammer resigns and Andy Burnham takes his place.
What are your, kind of, what do you see that as a sign of? Are you good pals with either of them, or do you have a thought of what the signs for the UK as a whole are?

**Gerry Adams** (0:41)
Well, you have to start off by wishing whoever's in the job, wishing them well, because so many decisions that they take have a very, very direct impact on the lives of people here on this island, and particularly in the north.
Andy Burnham is a unionist, so is Keir Starmer, so is every British prime minister. And part of their dispensation is to keep the union. So we need to be very, very mindful that when Mr. Burnham comes in, that he understands that the Good Friday Agreement has changed the way a British government should act. It's no longer the sole responsibility now. As an Irish person, I would say, the British government has never had any right in Ireland and never will have any right in Ireland. But for decades and for all of my life, they did whatever they wanted, and they told everybody else to butt out, and this was an internal matter for the government of the United Kingdom. Now, the Good Friday Agreement has set out rules and regulations and codes that the British government are obliged to abide by. And not least, that the people of the island, one of the big achievements of the Good Friday Agreement, there are probably three or four main pillars to it.
Measures to bring in equality, to end discrimination, leading with policing, legacy issues, and so on. The governance of the place, but also that the British government and the Irish government would hold referendums and the people will decide the future. So, the union is now very conditional. But is it a voluntary union? I would argue it isn't a voluntary union, but if it is, well, then, Mr. Burnham should be bound in his will to creating the conditions with the Irish government for people here to decide what way we want to govern ourselves.

**SPEAKER_1** (3:02)
Could you imagine the seventh Prime Minister in six years deciding that now is a good time to call the border poll?

**Gerry Adams** (3:11)
Well, he's going to have to.

**SPEAKER_1** (3:13)
Why?

**Gerry Adams** (3:14)
Because that's that increasingly and it doesn't, it doesn't impinge very much on British consciousness at this time.
But increasingly, the issue of Irish unity is now center stage. It's now part of the Daily Parliaments, part of the daily political debate. And remember, in the so-called United Kingdom, we have a first minister in Scotland who is committed to independence for Scotland, the same in Wales, and the same here in the north. So we have three first ministers in these three devolved administrations who are committed to self-determination for their own particular place. And that will continue. I imagine, in Ireland anyway, whatever about what's happening in Scotland or Wales, in Ireland, that's going to continue. It's going to continue to grow.

**SPEAKER_1** (4:17)
The big brother of that union, the English side of it, if opinion polls are to be believed, someone like Nigel Farage is going to be the next prime minister. Is that a good sign for the union? Is it a good sign for the future of politics on these islands?

**Gerry Adams** (4:35)
Well, it's not a good sign for ordinary working class people on either of the islands. But look, Burnham isn't even dead. So let's not jump ahead to the next election.
Andrew Burnham has been handed on a plate, on a plate piece.
It's 30 years since the IRA ceased to be, took itself off the stage.
It's still amazing to me that for the three or four or five main combatant forces that were here, and that includes the British forces, and they had a direct influence, and indeed a leadership role with some of the other Unionist armed forces. But it's still a matter of some consideration that the only one you hear about is the IRA, and everybody knows the IRA aren't about the IRS finished. Did all the things, everything that it said it would do, it has done. The Unionist paramilitaries have not. The British forces have not. The British government and one of the reprehensible things that Keir Starmer is responsible for is the legacy issue. And he and the Irish government have signed up for an arrangement which is aimed at getting the British forces off the hook, at covering up the level or extent or depth of collusion, and all that goes with it. So, Andy Burnham is coming in with the possibility of building on what he has been presented with. And maybe it matters to him that the Good Friday Agreement came from a Labour Prime Minister. Maybe that's something that the Labour Party can take some comfort from and some pride in, because Labour's governance here has been despicable. I mean, there are exceptions, of course. There are good ministers, good representatives, but, you know, where did the Haysblocks come from? Where did RMA women, being strip stars, came from? That came from British Labour administration. So, the success of British governments of whatever, particular colour, have a dreadful record in relation to Ireland. And he has the possibility, now, on a clean sheet to move everything on. And the way to move it on is to accept that the people have the right to decide the future.