Former US Vice President Mike Pence Talks Lindsey Graham's Legacy, Ukraine and Iran

**SPEAKER_1** (0:02)
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**Joe Mathieu** (0:07)
Joining us now is the former vice president of the United States, Mike Pence, longtime colleague of the late Senator Lindsey Graham, still a friend of President Zelensky, also author of the new book, What Conservatives Believe. Mr. Vice President, it's always great to have you with us at the desk, and good to see you today. You came to see us straight from the service, and we appreciate that. I know it's been an emotional day. I wonder if this is the clarifying moment that Ukraine needed to get Washington back on its side.

**Mike Pence** (0:37)
Well, first, thanks for simply acknowledging the life and service and legacy of Senator Lindsey Graham. America lost a great American statesman, but I lost a friend. I met him when I arrived on Capitol Hill 25 years ago. I knew him as a senator. I knew him when we were serving in the White House together. And a more tenacious advocate for American freedom at home and abroad, I don't think I'll ever know.
But all through it, and you heard this a bit in the service today, there was that winsome sense of humor. Lindsey Graham is someone who, he took the world seriously, but he did not take himself too seriously, and that was part of his magic.

**Joe Mathieu** (1:26)
Well, to that point, then, is this the moment, seeing all these, you were in the room with world leaders, with senators who were going to vote this evening on a Russia sanctions package, and a president of the United States, who some think has wavered at times when it comes to Ukraine. What did today mean?

**Mike Pence** (1:42)
Well, I honestly hope that the greatest tribute to Senator Lindsey Graham will be when the Senate tonight begins the process of voting on tough new sanctions against Russia, following that brutal and unprovoked invasion of four years ago. Literally, his last act was traveling to Kiev, meeting with President Zelenskyy, who I spoke to briefly today, thanking him for traveling to the funeral and acknowledging Senator Graham's contributions to the U.S.-Ukraine relationship. But my hope is that for all of the accolades that have been expressed about Senator Lindsey Graham, and they're all true, that what he would have hoped for the most is for our nation to impose the kind of sanctions, marshal the West again in support of Ukraine and make it possible for the military of Ukraine to repel and defeat that Russian invasion and create the conditions for lasting peace.

**Kailey Leinz** (2:49)
Well, and I wonder if you feel for President Zelensky and for Ukraine that they should feel in this moment more optimistic because of the prospect of this happening or concerned that one of their fiercest allies, most tenacious as you described him and Lindsey Graham is no longer there to liaise with the White House and with lawmakers here in Washington.

**Mike Pence** (3:05)
Well, I think it's a fair question, but what I've been very encouraged about is after some stops and starts early in this new Trump administration in support for Ukraine, in the last six months, we've seen President Trump and his national security team really begin to lean in in support of Ukraine. The announcement of providing anti-ballistic missile technology, the Patriot missile technology to Ukraine, I think sent a very important signal. I think frankly the fact that Ukraine in many ways has reinvented modern warfare with the use of drones has been taking the fight directly to the mainland of Russia and even to the heart of Moscow has created a new dynamic. But all along the way, I don't know for a fact, because I'm looking from the outside in, but I just have a sense that more than any other American, it was Senator Lindsey Graham's tenacious commitment to freedom, to understanding that the battle between Russia and Ukraine was really a frontier in the cause of freedom, and that America needed to stand with our allies, did all of the West.

**Joe Mathieu** (4:18)
He was known as well as one of the biggest Iran hawks, if I can use that term, in Washington, and was celebrating the president for his decision to go in some five months ago now. I'm sure you're well aware that the pause is now days long.
I just wonder your thoughts on this. If the president is re-opening the peace process at the right time, or if we're talking with people who simply cannot be trusted.

**Mike Pence** (4:48)
Well, look, I was grateful for Senator Graham's efforts in the president's decision to strike Iran a year ago and Operation Midnight Hammer, and then to launch Operation Epic Fury. Our militaries responded brilliantly.