EU's Foreign Affairs Chief Kaja Kallas Talks Ukraine/Russia War

**SPEAKER_1** (0:02)
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**SPEAKER_2** (0:07)
Well, Danny, NATO allies have signed defense deals worth at least 50 billion dollars as Europe ramps up military spending. Joining us now from Ankara is Bloomberg Chief Europe Correspondent Oliver Crook with a very special guest. Ollie.

**Oliver Crook** (0:22)
Yeah, that's right, Vani. Proceedings are underway here in Ankara, Turkey, where world leaders from the 32 NATO nations have descended to have those meetings. Of course, President Trump is also in attendance. We're very pleased to be joined by the EU's High Representative Kaja Kallas, who joins us here on the sidelines of the meeting in Ankara. High Representative, thank you so much for joining us here. For you, this meeting that we're holding today, one year from that critical meeting where we had those 5 percent pledges, what does success look like here over the next two days?

**Kaja Kallas** (0:46)
Well, of course, success looks like the investments that the defense that the countries have made to the defense budgets. And that also translates into innovation and joint work within the member states. So I think we have come a long way, actually.

**Oliver Crook** (1:05)
And thinking about Ukraine, as we always do when we talk and we always feel like we're at a critical moment from Ukraine, but really we feel that there has been a sort of change of momentum on the battlefield. We see that the Russians are really under severe pressure both militarily, also economically. What are the next steps now required from the European Union to take advantage of that? And particularly thinking about the sanctions package, the 21st, when do you think that will be ready?

**Kaja Kallas** (1:27)
We are working on that and we have the FAC, so next Foreign Affairs Council, coming up Monday. Hopefully we'll get some of it passed there.
Why is it important because we see, although you say that Russia is weaker than it has ever been before, it is not in the place where they actually come to the negotiation table. So we still need to put more pressure on them so that they would realize that they have to end this war. They have to talk to the Ukrainians to stop it.

**Oliver Crook** (1:59)
And I know generally where you sort of stand on this debate, but there's been a rising debate over the last couple of months about engaging diplomatically with the Russians. We know that Antonio Costa's team has reached out to them. Do you think that it is an appropriate measure now to start thinking about it? And I know that the answer is that the Russians generally don't seem like they want to negotiate, but how do we know if we do not on the European side have any contact?

**Kaja Kallas** (2:20)
No, I think the most important is that Ukrainians talk to the Russians. The Russians talk to the Ukrainians because the war is between them.
And it is about what concerns really the two of them. What we can do on the side is to strengthen Ukrainian position because we have been on their side from the start so that they would be stronger on the negotiation table, really, and there are some issues that concern also us. Now, what we can't be, we can't be the ones who are demanding that please talk to us because it's also Russia that needs to realize the things that they want. I mean, lifting of sanctions, for example, depend on the Ukraine, the European decision.

**Oliver Crook** (3:05)
And also thinking about the Europeans and also being able to backfill the troop movements that we've heard from the United States. We've been hearing, obviously, that the United States is gonna withdraw some troops. We heard from Pete Hegseth, they're gonna do another review over the next six months. Are you satisfied with the European efforts to try to backfill that? Do you feel that there is that safety net there? Or is there more that needs to be done there on the European side?

**Kaja Kallas** (3:25)
More needs to be done, that's very clear. But we are in constant contact with NATO, that all these things don't happen, so that we leave a vacuum or a gap really behind.
So there are troop movements inside Europe, but it doesn't affect the overall capability of defense and deterrence.

**Oliver Crook** (3:44)
And of course, Trump has linked a number of things also to the activity in Hormuz. There has been discussions periodically about a European role there. Do you see that conversation evolving and moving forward? Are we still at sort of where we've been over the last couple of months with that UK sort of French-led effort?