Episode #2271: Hammer and Nigel Full Show

Nigel (0:00)

Hammer and Nigel.

SPEAKER_2 (0:01)

You believe these characters?

Nigel (0:02)

They're weird of us.

So you have Hammer convicted Delphi killer, Richard Allen, accused and convicted, found guilty of taking the lives of two beautiful young girls, Libby and Abby. His legal team, along with Richard Allen, in court today in front of a three judge panel, appealing that guilty conviction, saying that they weren't allowed to present their proper defense, also accusing and alleging that the search and seizure of his house was didn't wasn't right, and that he wasn't treated well in the when he was in solitary confinement, things like all that came out today. And I really don't care about how he was treated in solitary confinement or any of this other stuff, for that matter.

Jason Hammer (0:58)

Well, when you say other stuff, what do you mean by that? Because if the defense didn't get a chance to put their case in front of the judge the right way, I think that's a big deal.

Nigel (1:06)

I'm just saying that if...

Like, I can't see a three-judge panel saying, Oh, so you weren't allowed to throw odinism in there. There was no reason to throw it in there. Then we're not going to give you a new trial. Nothing's going to happen here. That's just my thing.

Jason Hammer (1:25)

I get that, but because the judge, Fran Gull, in this murder trial all of a sudden became such a gutless wussy or something that rhymes with it, we've got questions. And I hate when there are questions. This is one of those interesting things, Nigel, where we've spoken to law enforcement officials who have been in that courtroom. And I guess if you were in the courtroom, you left feeling like Richard Allen was the guy. There's no question, no ifs, ands, or buts. Richard Allen is the guy.

But the thing is, the judge that historically loved cameras in the courtroom and would fight for cameras in the courtroom decided to not allow cameras in this courtroom. And all we got were pool reporters. And what the pool reporters were telling us, you know, because we had our Donnie Burgess in there, back when Donnie worked here, and other TV stations around Central Indy had reporters in there, they'd all share notes and they would report back to the masses.

It didn't jive with what we were being told was happening in the courtroom. So I hate the fact that there's questions. If this monster did it, then, you know, let's put it to bed. Let's put it to rest. It should have already been done by now if they just would have allowed cameras in the courtroom or allowed the defense to put their odinism claims or whatever it is out there. It might not have even made a difference and these families could start moving on with their lives. But I'm not going to lie to you. I think that was pretty shady on the judge's behalf to not allow their defense. If the defense is saying this was an occult killing and our guy, you know, he was forced to say this, OK, if that's your argument, that's fine.

Prosecution, you should have so much overwhelming evidence that it shouldn't matter.

Nigel (3:26)

Prosecution saying there was no evidence whatsoever of the odinism claim. And that's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_2 (3:32)

And like, then what are you afraid of?

SPEAKER_4 (3:33)

If you've got the stuff that can put him away, fair enough.

Jason Hammer (3:36)

What are you afraid of? See, this is why I hated the fact that Fran Gold, the judge, became such a weenie, such a gutless coward in this trial, were having this conversation. Because look, if I were Libby or Abby's parents or grandparents or family members, I would be furious that we have to keep reliving this nightmare. I would be. And it should be over with by now.

But there are still questions, I believe, because of the lack of transparency the first time around. All of a sudden, the judge that loved transparency did not want to have cameras in the courtroom.

And if you're listening, I may be coming off as some sort of apologist for Richard Allen. I'm not doing that.

Nigel (4:21)

No.

I think you and I had just a slight disagreement on what was, you know, what was going on here today and what I care about, what you care about. But I don't think that you're not coming off as some apologist.

Jason Hammer (4:33)

Trust me, I'm not trying to carry Richard Allen's water here.

And maybe we can talk to Guy Relford about this when he comes in, because he is a defense attorney. In addition to being the gun guy, we go to Guy Relford for defense attorney questions. And during the trial, Guy was so good at recapping the notes that we would get from the pool reporters. Oh, it was amazing. We should have won an award for it. But I think like our boss ticked off the award people and we weren't nominated anymore. So we didn't win anything, but we should have won something for that. I remember that. And Guy Relford would have been the reason why.