Episode 153: Mountain Meadows Massacre, Pt. 1

**SPEAKER_1** (0:21)
The summer of 1857 stands as one of the most consequential periods in the history of the American West. Dare I say, a cruel, cruel summer. Listen, you calm down, Bananarama, for that even is your real name. This is because 1857 Utah is a crucible. There's religious fanaticism, political desperation, and racial manipulation that would culminate in one of the most horrific atrocities in frontier Utah. During these critical months, the leadership of the LDS Church facing what they perceived as an existential threat from the approaching United States Army embarked on a systematic campaign to transform their isolated Mountain Kingdom into an armed fortress.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:06)
Now, we've been leading up to this event with many episodes, but now we're going to finally get into the Mountain Meadows Massacre, which is the culmination of all of this. And it's something that's become very interesting recently in public media, under the banner of heaven, I got to help recreate the Mountain Meadows Massacre on screen, which was honestly an experience of a lifetime. And, you know, then of course, we will say American Primeval sort of depicted it ish.
But I'm working on several other projects that are talking about that as well, including Juanita Brooks' biography, She is a Massacre historian. So this is a history that that matters to me and matters to our community. And while we are making jokes like Taylor Swift Cruel Summer jokes, we also understand that this is a very serious event that affected the history of America and definitely told a gruesome tale about my ancestors, a dark shadow of the past, a stain that still exists today. We had a descendant of John D. Lee who was a participant, Mike Lee, Senator Mike Lee making terrible, violent jokes. I think that's what happens when we talk about how Mountain Meadows Massacre is cursed, how it haunts people. It haunts people in the unprocessed, unchecked, unaccountable history of descendants like folks like Mike Lee who just can't look in a mirror and see the cautionary tales.

**SPEAKER_1** (2:28)
It's definitely haunting him.

**SPEAKER_2** (2:30)
I'll tell you. Well, I mean, we can talk about this after like the curse lore that goes on with the families and stuff like that. But this is a big event in Mormon history and thanks to Juanita Brooks and other historians who have brought this to light, we're going to be getting into the research and talking about this event because Central to Mormon Strategy was an effort to coerce, manipulate and deceive Native American tribal leaders into serving as instruments of Mormon resistance against federal authorities. So it also tells a very sad tale about, when we think of colonization of Native people, we just think of like, white settlers came in and killed them and that was it. They didn't just do that, but yes, and they also manipulated, coerced, and used them and blamed them for things that generations after still have to bury the weight of or carry the weight of. And so that's why this is important.

**SPEAKER_1** (3:28)
In this episode, we'll examine the intricate web of secret meetings, diplomatic manipulations and military preparations that Mormon leaders are orchestrating during the Summer of 1857 And of particular focus are these efforts. They are calculated to exploit the vulnerabilities of Paiute, Yewt and Shoshone bands, people like we said, that are already marginalized by disease and displacement and cultural disruption, and then transform them into unwitting participants in what Mormon theology cast as an apocalyptic struggle between the kingdom of God and the forces of Babylon.

**SPEAKER_2** (3:59)
Through careful analysis of contemporary documents, personal journals and eyewitness accounts, we can trace a clear pattern of deliberate orchestration that reveals not only merely tactical planning but profound moral corruption that would lead directly to the massacre at Mountain Meadows.

**SPEAKER_1** (4:17)
Now for a lot of people, the key debate that's still at the heart of the massacre story is how culpable Brigham Young was as the leader of the Mormons. And the truth is, there's not really a satisfying answer to that question. Do we have a letter from him ordering the massacre? No we do not. Do we have anyone claiming at the time that he ordered it? No we do not. Well isn't that enough?

**SPEAKER_2** (4:37)
I mean, so I want to talk about that for a minute because I think people jump to this all the time, did Brigham Young order it? And to me I'm like, first of all we don't know. Like you said, we absolutely know he's part of the cover up. He orchestrated a cover up. We absolutely know that he lied about it. And so we can get into all that and we will get into that. But to me, it doesn't matter as much because Mormon leaders did it. Mormons did it anyway. Like I don't know why we need Brigham to say he did it. We know that Brigham ordered the massacre of the Timpanogos people. He was clearly not above murdering people to get his goals done. And again, not to bring up American Primeval, but my frustration with that when Mormons say, oh, that's not us. They're making Mormon sound violent. The show again depicts Brigham Young and the Nauvoo Legion. And I'm sorry, I could prove in court that Brigham Young fostered, facilitated and ordered violent actions with his leadership. He used his power as a sword and a hammer many times in his presidency. So did he write a letter or tell the guys directly to do it? We're never going to know because he's not dumb either. Like he knew how to cover his tracks. And so you can make personal conclusions about that, but you can't definitively say. But that question is just so wild to me. It's like a distraction because it's like Mormons did it anyway. I guess what people are really asking with that is, is the church true if Brigham Young ordered it or not? And it's like, it doesn't matter. Mormons use priesthood to justify it. They use rituals, as you'll see. Yeah, they take temple rituals into the, it becomes a ritual killing. And so whether it's Brigham Young's fault or not, and I'm going to argue that it is, whether he ordered it or not. At the end of the day, the book stops with that guy and these were his men. And his rhetoric certainly didn't hurt.