Episode 140: The Utah War, part one

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:36)
History books tend to skip right from the Mexican War to the Civil War, don't they? As if nothing happened in America during the 1850s, except for political debates about slavery.

**Bryan Buchanan** (0:47)
Uh, excuse me?

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:50)
What?

**Bryan Buchanan** (0:52)
You're really just going to gloss over this?

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:54)
I still have nothing. What are you talking about?

**Bryan Buchanan** (0:57)
The Great Boat Race of 1852?

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:01)
Of course. Listen, I'd accuse you of making this up, but I feel in my heart that it's probably true.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:07)
Oh, it's true. Harvard and the Yalys duking in out at the first college athletic event.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:13)
Don't think the listeners can't hear those air quotes around athletic. They're the sweet peas and they're athletic prowess.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:20)
I know. I threw up a little in my mouth to you. In all seriousness, back on topic, did anything happen in the 1850s? Well, I don't know. Have you met Mr. Peter Berg? Because according to him, there was a lot going on in the 1850s.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:33)
I think I have met him, yes. And you're right. We're getting into the history. You might have seen depicted in the number one show streaming on Netflix.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:41)
Oh, Squid Games 4?

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:44)
How dare you? It's American Primeval. Thank you very much. It's a lighthearted, limited series about the romantic era in Utah's history known as the Utah War.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:55)
But the history is so inaccurate, says every Mormon historian on your Facebook right now.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (2:00)
Listen, can I just talk about this for a minute? We, I asked Bryan to re-record this so we could have some of my reactions. And I will say that I've, I've been learning and growing. I was a little defensive. About the reaction to Under the Banner of Heaven. But for the most part, I think our community is growing on this. People seem to be responding better, understanding that it is fiction. And that history is a different craft than filmmaking. Filmmaking is a craft, history is a craft. They're both crafts I enjoy and respect. They both have codes of ethics and ways of doing things and ideals that are important. And sometimes those ideals pair well and sometimes they conflict. And, you know, I was frustrated with Under the Banner of Heaven with the reaction. It was kind of embarrassing.

**Bryan Buchanan** (2:47)
Were there any reactions?

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (2:49)
I mean, I poured my heart and soul into that. And it was a very personal story to me. And I know it was sort of a darker portrayal of a Mormon experience, but it was one that rang true for a lot of people that I know. And a lot of people have experienced it like that. So to see it dismissed was kind of personal for me. It felt like the community once again was rejecting things.

**Bryan Buchanan** (3:08)
Listen, if you'd have just taken Greg Olson's timeline seriously, we wouldn't have been in that situation.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (3:13)
That's a fair critique. That's a fair critique. And I did have more say on that show than I did on this one. But doing this work now feels like every time there's a Mormon show that comes out that I've worked on, it feels like I'm going home to dinner on Thanksgiving. You know, like I'm going home to Thanksgiving dinner and arguing with my family. Or like I'm the weird one that's made the whole room weird. But I will say, I think the reaction is better this time. People are growing up a little bit. They're able to understand that it's fiction. You know, there's some people that are big mad about it. I did see some apologists like were tagging me online and I was just, you know, being very zen. I'm not, I'm not engaging this time. But, yeah, I wanted to talk about this period for a long time as Bryan knows, as I've dragged him into The Utah War is important.

**Bryan Buchanan** (4:04)
Do you like The Utah War or something?

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (4:07)
I'm a big fan of The Utah War. One of the things I got to do and I worked on the show, I think it was back in 2022, so it was a while ago and then the strike came and I didn't even know if the show was going to come out. I got to help build the Nauvoo Legion camp. So seeing that on on screen was really cool, the outfits, all that kind of stuff. I was not really there to work on story and narrative this time. I worked on the look and feel and I think you were responsible for the epaulets, weren't you? Well, that and Renee Reed, who she worked on the show with us on Under the Banner of Heaven. And so she brought me on to this project. So she's depicted the massacre twice now on screen. I know the massacre is very different on the show, but we're going to we're going to talk about all of that because I know people are looking to this to see fact from fiction. And there's a lot of differences, but not as many as you think. Because yeah, the narrative, I think works for what we're going to talk about. Are the details right on the show? No, but those are creative choices in the craft of filmmaking. I think it's important to take away from the whole thing that Mormons acted like gangsters on the frontier. They faked an Indian massacre and they did not like the government. And the show does show that.