Episode 127: The Walker War, part two

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:00)
Hi, this is Lindsay Hansen Park.

**Bryan Buchanan** (0:02)
And this is Bryan Buchanan.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:04)
Bringing you the story of Mormonism from the shadow of the everlasting hills, straight out of Zion, this isn't your grandpa's Mormon history.

**Bryan Buchanan** (0:31)
This is the tale of Mormon saints and sinners from our roots until present day.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:36)
Gird your loins, lock your hearts, and pay your tithing, because we're bringing you the story of Mormonism in all its paradisiacal glory.

**Bryan Buchanan** (0:45)
It's the Sunstone History Podcast.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:07)
I'm so happy to bring on our friend and scholar Ryan Wimmer. We've known him for years. He's been bopping around Sunstone for how long have you been attending Sunstone, Ryan?

**Ryan Wimmer** (1:18)
Since 2000

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:20)
So longer than me.
Yeah, before we get into the subject matter, tell us tell us a little bit about your background. You've been on Year of Polygamy, right? This is not a first for me.

**Ryan Wimmer** (1:32)
Yeah, we talked about The Walker War, I don't know, five years ago, maybe six or seven. I can't remember.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:38)
Getting old. Well, I'm excited to talk about that. But tell us about your background. And then I want to hear how you got into the subject.

**Ryan Wimmer** (1:45)
I decided to do a history major back when I was in Salt Lake Community College.
But there I ended up just doing the general studies. Then I went to the University of Utah, where I got my bachelor's degree. And actually, back then, I did a piece on the Japanese internment in Utah for my final project. And I actually, I wrote a, not long after that, I wrote a chapter on Asians in Utah for this forthcoming, like, encyclopedia that ended up getting abandoned, so I got this written chapter just sitting with nothing to do right now. Then I went to Brigham Young University for my master's degree. I was kind of back and forth on what I wanted to do my thesis on. I wanted to do something in the Mormon world, but also the American West.
I finally ran across The Walker War and read a couple of things on it and decided to run with that.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (2:46)
I run into your research whenever I get into this time period because you're probably the leading scholar talking about the stuff, researching the stuff.
If you are new to Utah history or Mormon history at this time period, it can be really confusing because there's a lot of what Mormon people would call skirmishes with the Indians, confrontations with the Indians' conflicts.
There's a lot of that happening throughout the course of 1847 up until really the 1870s. That's when the federal government comes in and kind of changes things, but it gets confusing. There's the Walker War, the Blackhawk War, the Utah War, so there's a lot of conflict going on. We're hoping that you could help us kind of parse that out. In the last episode, we give a background to some of the conflicts leading up to this because I think that that's important context. I think we're leaving you right in 1853 If you want to tell us first who James Ivey is, who is this guy and how does this event maybe start? I don't know. Do you think this event starts at the Walker War? Sure, I'd like to hear that too, but first, who is James Ivey?

**Ryan Wimmer** (4:03)
James Ivey, his family, they converted back in Nauvoo. They got to Utah in 1849 He was only 18, so you think about when the Walker War starts in 1853, he's really quite young. That was something I didn't know until I ran across what I'll get into in 1897 where he was still alive, so that kind of blew my mind that he's still alive. But it was because he was actually still quite young when this kicked off.
And he had lots of, you know, after this he has more contact with Native Americans, usually not in a good way.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (4:44)
I think maybe set it up.
If you haven't listened to the last episode, definitely listen to the last episode. It's meant to be, this is part two of that, but if people are just tuning in the first time, tell us who the major players are going to be in this so-called war.

**Ryan Wimmer** (5:00)
Well, James Hive is a major player at the beginning. He kind of falls off after that. I mean, you'll see his name come up in some letters, but he's really not a major player after the war gets started. The big players are, of course, Brigham Young, Chief Arapine, another one called Wynona, George A. Smith, Peter Conover, Stephen Markham. Those are some of your big players. One of your least biggest player is Chief Wakara.