Ep 451: Manish Sabharwal is a Good Ancestor

**Amit Varma** (0:06)
So, here are two things I want for you and aspire to myself. One, I want you to turn your attention to more than just one thing. Yes, when you are young, it's good to go down rabbit holes and become a specialist at one thing. But just as much as depth is important, I want you to have breadth, not just in terms of ability, but also interests. Once you solve the small problems in your own life, I want you to turn to the big problems of the world. It will give you purpose and something to wake up for. Two, I want you to combine a life of thought and action. Too many people favor one over the other. Academics, for example, can go too much towards thought and stay divorced from the real world because they don't actually do anything. And there are others who can get a lot done within a system, but never step back to take a broader view. Well, I want you to combine both of these, have a bias for action, and as action produces information, learn from what you do to sharpen your view of the world and then get back into action using all that you have learnt. And so on and on in a virtuous cycle. My guest today has achieved both of these things, as have many other people who come on the show, if not all of them. The particulars don't matter so much, even if they can often be inspiring. The larger lesson matters. Always try to be bigger than yourself.
Though not by eating carbohydrates. Sugar is Poison.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:23)
Welcome to the Seen and the Unseen, our weekly podcast on economics, politics and behavioral science. Please welcome your host, Amit Varma.

**Amit Varma** (1:36)
Welcome to the Seen and the Unseen. My guest today is Manish Sabharwal, who founded TeamLease, became a successful entrepreneur, and then turned his attention to making India a better place. His contributions to public policy and intellectual discourse are immense. He coined the brilliant term regulatory cholesterol to describe the flaws in our governance and has led the fight for deregulation and decriminalization. You should check out episode 442 of this podcast for a more detailed episode on that with Shruti Rajagopalan. Manish is a lot more than just this, so he is genuinely bilingual, is steeped in both Indian culture and western thought, and the conversation you are about to hear has so much insight per minute that I don't even know what highlights to pick. Incredibly stimulating, you will agree with me after you listen, so let's get to the conversation. But first, let's take a quick commercial break.
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Uplevel yourself.
Manish, welcome to The Seen and the Unseen.

**Manish Sabharwal** (3:58)
Thank you so much. Wonderful to be here.

**Amit Varma** (4:00)
You know, I got to your home early where we are recording this and I enjoyed waiting in this room for about 15-20 minutes because you have an absolutely magnificent library. And just as we sat down, you were explaining to me how you've organized this library. This is a biography shelf and this is a history shelf. And then you posed that question, does history make people or does people make history? What are your thoughts on what the answer could be? I mean, obviously, it's not a binary, but what are your thoughts on what the answer could be?