Ep 449: Five Assassinations and an Arms Deal

**Amit Varma** (0:06)
When I think of the 1980s, I think of Jitendra's white pants. In my mind, that was not a decade that was too memorable. The films and music were terrible, and nothing much happened in India. In the 1970s, we had the student protests and the emergency. In the 1990s, we had the liberalization that opened up the world to us and got hundreds of millions of people out of poverty.
Now, actually, now that I think about it, now that I look back, a lot happened in the 1980s. The 1980s were box office. Indeed, the subject of this episode is a fine book about the life of a man who was involved in five assassinations and an arms deal, which is where I got the title of this episode from. You will hear about a barber shop in Kahuta, a box of exploding mangoes, a prime minister who gives a bulletproof vest to a man who goes on to kill him and then goes on to be killed himself. There is a man called Bulbul who has to lead an attack against a man who taught him how to fight. And there is a mysterious matter, the small matter of who got the Bofors kickback. There is so much masala in this episode that one can even forget Jitendra for the pants. The 1980s had it all.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:15)
Welcome to the Seen and the Unseen, our weekly podcast on economics, politics and behavioural science. Please welcome your host, Amit Varma.

**Amit Varma** (1:29)
Welcome to the Seen and the Unseen. My guest today is Probal DasGupta, a former army officer turned historian who has been on my show before, talking about the 1967 battle when India beat China. His latest book is called General Brasstacks and is a biography of General K Sundarji, who was practically like a Forrest Gump of Indian history in the 1980s.
Whenever something important happens in that decade, Sundarji is there. This includes Five Assassinations, this includes an Arms Deal. General Sundarji was a unique character, an iconoclastic thinker who later became the head of the Indian army, played a key role in Operation Bluestar, Operation Brasstacks, a selection of Bofors as a weapon the Indian army would buy, and the misadventures of the IPKF in Sri Lanka. I found the book fascinating because it was not just the story of a man, but it was the story of a country, through the eyes of someone who was actually a player of consequence. I learned a lot by reading the book and during this conversation. Probal combines great storytelling with great insight, and you will be both entertained and enlightened in the next five hours. Before you get to this though, let's take a quick commercial break, which is not quite a commercial break. It's about my latest product and I'm so excited to tell you about it with background music. So take a break.
Gather around me friends, I have exciting news for you. I've launched a new YouTube show called Watching the Wheels, in which every week Shruti Rajagopalan, Pranay Kotasthane, and I will gather to discuss what is happening in the world around us. What have we been thinking about? What do we want to brainstorm? We'll discuss ideas, share stories, argue furiously and punish each other with bad jokes. It will be fun, it will be fast, it will be fantastic and you are invited. There will be an audio version soon on every podcast app, but our primary home is YouTube. So head on over to complicated URL alert. Head on over to youtube.com/atwatching-the-wheels.
At watching the wheels with hyphens. I'll also link it from the show notes so you can just search for it. But remember the name of the show, Watching the Wheels with Shruti, Pranay and Amit. Where the world unfolds and finally makes sense.
Probal, welcome back to the Seen and the Unseen.

**Probal DasGupta** (3:48)
Thank you Amit. It's a pleasure to be here.

**Amit Varma** (3:51)
So every time I hang out with you, I learn new things and just now before we started, gentle listeners, Probal was telling me about something called Meat on Hooves. So this sounds as a fervent non-vegetarian, this sounds like a delightful concept to me. Please elaborate.

**Probal DasGupta** (4:07)
Yes.

**Amit Varma** (4:08)
Trigger warning for vegetarians or trigger warning, just come back, fast forward this to like five minutes later, but please continue.

**Probal DasGupta** (4:15)
So Meat on Hooves, well, rations arrive at army units, along with the rations, goat, sheep, chicken, they're also supplied. So the live animal that arrives at army units, which could be slaughtered at a time convenient for the troops, is called Meat on Hooves.