Envisioning a Positive AI Future, with Tim Reutemann, Author of Liquid Reign

**Tim Reutemann** (0:00)
Your vote is basically like this pool of energy that you can distribute to different topics, and you can distribute it through other people. Say, food price regulation.
Then I see a cybernetic algorithm that AI manage that just makes sure everybody always has enough to eat, and it's always nutritious. A relatively stable AI that just does that, and I can give my vote to that AI. In Liquid Reign, it's more like, okay, you have retina, you have junk DNA, you have fingerprints, you have toe prints, you have voice pattern, you have heart pattern, and with O7, you can then discuss restoring your identity.

**Nathan Labenz** (0:32)
What is the progressive movement 2 that would start to imagine the next generation of ballot initiatives and some early forms of liquid democracy that we might be able to institute likely first at a state level? Hello, and welcome back to Turpentine AI. If you've missed the last few episodes, don't worry, you're not hearing things. Turpentine is in the process of expanding its AI portfolio. And as part of that, we're creating a dedicated new feed for The Cognitive Revolution, which you can find and subscribe to at cognitiverevolution.ai. This feed, soon to be rebranded, will feature best of content from multiple AI focus shows. But for now, both the new Cognitive Revolution feed and this original feed will feature original content. If you want to get it all, you will need to subscribe to both feeds.
Today's episode, which is exclusive to this feed, is a fascinating conversation with Tim Reutemann, author of the near future science fiction novel Liquid Reign. Recently, I've repeatedly noticed that the scarcest resource seems to be a positive vision for the future. That might be hyperbole, but it really is striking amidst such rapidly advancing AI capabilities that so few of our AI thought leaders attempt to articulate in concrete terms, what life with advanced AI systems will be like. We hear high level promises of material abundance, freedom from drudgery, and breakthrough cures for all diseases. Some, like Sam Altman, very much to his credit in my opinion, are even investing in research and platforms for a new social contract built around a universal basic income. But still, what is a day in the average person's life supposed to look like in a world full of advanced AI systems?
It seems that just about everyone's crystal ball gets pretty foggy. To be honest, sometimes I wonder if the apparently extreme difficulty of imagining a positive future should count as some evidence of a coming singularity. With that in mind, I'm really excited to present Tim and his book, which envisions a world transformed by AI and by other technologies, including crypto-secured identity, advanced virtual reality, and high-bandwidth direct democracy, and presents future people navigating this world in recognizably human ways, albeit with very different social norms and moderately different values.
Tim has a background in economics and international climate collaboration, and he wrote Liquid Reign as a long-form thought experiment meant to explore how humans can maintain their agency and autonomy in the presence of increasingly powerful technology. I read this book years ago, and I've thought about it often ever since. I really applaud Tim for taking on the challenge of concretely imagining a possible future that is neither utopian nor dystopian, and I really encourage you both to read the book and to spend some time doing the same for yourself.
If you're finding value in the show, we always appreciate it when you share it with friends. I recommend this episode to everyone, but particularly to anyone that you think would need a little help envisioning a positive future in which AI plays a major role. And please do take a moment to subscribe to our new feed. We just released an episode with Kirtana Gopalakrishnan and Ted Zhao from Google DeepMind's robotics team, and I think that's really the perfect technical complement to this episode, showing just how much practical progress is being made toward a future of robot servants and general material abundance. You can find that and subscribe at our website, cognitiverevolution.ai. For now, here's my hyperstimulating conversation with Tim Reutemann, author of Liquid Reign. Tim Reutemann, author of Liquid Reign, welcome to The Cognitive Revolution.

**Tim Reutemann** (4:24)
Thank you for having me, Nathan. I'm happy to be here.

**Nathan Labenz** (4:26)
I think this one's going to be a lot of fun.
To just set the stage a little bit, you are the author of this book, Liquid Reign, which I heard about a few years ago now on a podcast as well. If I recall correctly, I believe it was Helen Landemore, who recommended it on the Ezra Klein show as one of her three books. I'm sure you would remember that moment.