E83: BONUS EPISODE: Death of a Founder

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:21)
Hey guys, I have a fun surprise for you. In the next two weeks, we have two special, very bonus episodes for you coming out. Normally we do the podcast every other week, but it's Christmas come early. We've got two extra succession podcasts coming your way.
And podcast favorite historian, Christopher C. Smith has been absent for a while. Have you noticed? The lovely man done and went and got himself hitched. So on behalf of the Sunstone Mormon History Podcast and the Chris Smith fans everywhere, I want to offer him a hearty congratulations. He'll pop in again soon, I promise. But for now, he's given us a bonus episode today. Think of it as his wedding gift to us.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:03)
I wanted matching Tupperware, but I'll settle for a social network analysis into how Mormon schisms happen. Chris Smith has conducted a fascinating interview with scholar Joseph West about how and why Mormon schisms start and then how they develop.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:16)
This is a skill set that any lover of Mormon history had better get acquainted with because if you haven't learned by now, Mormonism loves schismatic breaks more than it allows bathroom breaks in primary.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:28)
So Chris interviews therapist Joseph West, who's also a Mormon study scholar and also co-founded the Mormon Transhumanist Movement. This interview is really important because it talks about how religions continue after their founder dies. Remember we talked about very few survived the death of that first leader. There are certain patterns that happen when the founder of a religious movement dies that can ensure longevity in that movement. And Joseph West outlines those here. So if you're looking to take over your current proffer or founder, listen up folks, he'll give you a roadmap.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:56)
And wait, can we just talk about transhumanists for just a minute because listen up kids, if you don't know about the Mormon transhumanists, you need to. I got introduced to them through my work at Sunstone. I call them Star Trek Mormons, but let me kind of try to explain this and Joseph West and Carl Youngblood and all you good Mormon transhumanists, Blair Ostler. I get this wrong, tell me, but it's worth knowing and it's worth looking into. And mostly because I've been on a huge AI and simulation theory kick the past few months. I've been reading a lot of Max Tegmark's work. He's a physicist and he's talking about simulation theory and the potential of AI. And I've been going down this rabbit hole of quantum computing and quantum physics. And the Mormon transhumanists are people that look to the future. They believe that Mormon doctrine is rooted in the science of future and AI. And whenever I hear that, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. That's Star Trek. That's cool. What an interesting theory. But the more that I learn about intelligent AI and AGI and these super computers and the way that machines and computers can work and the theories and what physics allow, the more I'm like, oh, those Mormon transhumanists, they're kind of smart. So if you want to check out what they're doing, it's something interesting that has nothing to do with the podcast we're talking about today. It was interesting to hear Joseph West do the scholar route because I know him as a Mormon transhumanist. So let's listen to him and Chris Smith give this great interview and talk about the dynamics of what causes movements to stick around long after the founder dies. I think it's worth noting into what we're talking about with a Mormon succession crisis. And then next week we have a really fun surprise we've been plugging for a long time.

**Bryan Buchanan** (3:29)
I've been around Mormon history for a while.
I honestly don't think I have ever heard more buzz after a presentation at MHA than Katie's presentation last year. I remember that day because Chris, my coworker, was actually at the conference. I was back at the store and I was just kind of monitoring on Twitter, seeing what people were saying. And the second she started talking, I start seeing all these tweets about it. And then as soon as she was done, Twitter went crazy. Honestly, I've never seen that much interest in a presentation for a long time.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (4:00)
We've been trying to get our on ever since. So this week we have this fascinating presentation with Joseph West, this interview with Chris Smith. And next week, stay tuned for Katie.
Hi, this is Lindsay Hansen Park.

**Bryan Buchanan** (4:13)
And this is Bryan Buchanan.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (4:15)
Bringing you the story of Mormonism from the shadow of the Everlasting Hills straight out of Zion. This isn't your grandpa's Mormon history.