E70: UTBOH Fact, Fiction and Episode Three

**Bryan Buchanan** (0:16)
Welcome back, friends.
Today, we're gonna talk about episode three of Under the Banner of Heaven. We're starting to get a little more complex stories. We're gonna get some interesting historical flashbacks again tonight. And so, let's talk about it.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:31)
First of all, I'm too busy eating the Cinnamon Toast Crunch Milkshake you just made for me. Something Bryan picked up on one of our many adventures. This one, South Dakota?

**Bryan Buchanan** (0:41)
This we bring back from South Dakota.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:43)
It's a special milkshake that only Bryan makes that if you're ever in his inner circle, you'll know that you've won if you've had one of Bryan's Cinnamon Toast Crunch Milkshakes.

**Bryan Buchanan** (0:52)
It's the milkshake mighty and strong, so.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:59)
Hi, this is Lindsay Hansen Park.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:02)
And this is Bryan Buchanan.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:03)
Bringing you the story of Mormonism from the shadow of the Everlasting Hills, straight out of Zion. This isn't your grandpa's Mormon history.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:30)
This is the tale of Mormon saints and sinners from our roots until present day.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:35)
Gird your loins, lock your hearts, and pay your tithing, because we're bringing you the story of Mormonism in all its paradisiacal glory.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:44)
It's the Sunstone History Podcast.
So let's talk about this whole angle of the investigation with looking up the canyon in the mountains. Was that part of the actual investigation?

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (2:16)
Like directly looking at the canyon, no, but this idea that there were fundamentalists living in the mountains is a real thing. Do you want to talk about why?

**Bryan Buchanan** (2:24)
Hit me.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (2:25)
So there, I mean, I'll just say this. There's a collective of Mormon fundamentalist patriots that were interacting with the Lafferty family that had ties to, let's just say, mountain abodes in Utah.

**Bryan Buchanan** (2:38)
And that, of course, like we talked about in the lead up episode, that site of Crossfield's sanctuary was chosen by Revelation.
So obviously that, the mountains to them were very important. And it's such a good dramatic device because it really, Tabba running through that and that tension that it builds is really fantastic.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (3:01)
So of course, what you're referring to is in episode three, which we're talking about tonight, we have one of the brothers played by Rory Culkin, who has this sort of standoff with the government at this mountain abode. And that is not exactly accurate. There are some things that were pulled from that narrative that are based in fact. So we do know that several of the brothers at certain times, especially during this time period, decided to live off the grid.
We know Mormon fundamentalists who do this a lot. It's, you know, some don't want any reliance on the government at all or the outside world. So they'll live off of generators, their own power supplies. And this is us being brought into the Lafferty world of a brother who is radicalized so far, he's off the grid.
Now, the Lafferty family did have a farm and a cabin. They called it the farm. It was an old rundown barn or property that belonged to the family where the brothers would meet and sometimes live. And so this was sort of an amalgamation of that to show that. It also is pulling on these themes of what happens when constitutionalists radicalize. So a lot of people said that scene reminds them of Ruby Ridge. There's a reason that that's the case. There are Mormon ties to Ruby Ridge that a lot of people don't realize.
One of the lead negotiators was a Mormon man that they brought in because he had a lot of high respect and regard.

**Bryan Buchanan** (4:22)
A very interesting brief Mormon man.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (4:25)
Do you want to talk about that?

**Bryan Buchanan** (4:27)
Oh, Mr. Bo Greitz. He was an interesting one. And he just happened to be a casualty of a fascinating crackdown on kind of right-wing elements of Mormonism in the 90s, the early 90s. And that was fascinating because it happened during the time when Ezra Taft Benson, of all people, was president of the LDS Church, who of course had been quite known for his ties to the John Birch Society and conservative politics.
By that point in his life, his health and mental state are not great. So it seems very likely that he's not the one making those decisions.
But it was used as a way to kind of slap down the more conservative elements and say, oh, look, this is not welcome anymore. And Bo Greitz is part of this whole thing. And he runs for president and gets a decent showing in Utah, at least. Not so much elsewhere.