E69: UTBOH Fact, Fiction and Episode Two

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:23)
If you've been following our series, where Bryan Buchanan and I press pause on the Mormon succession crisis, you'll know that we are covering Under the Banner of Heaven for an emergency breakout session where we stopped going in order of the history, which is very hard for me, and we talk about the Hulu series Under the Banner of Heaven. So I'm back with Bryan Buchanan. Hi, Bryan, say hello.

**Bryan Buchanan** (0:45)
Hello, friends, let's talk.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (0:47)
We want you to go back two episodes if you want to learn about the show. I served as one of the official consultants with the help of Bryan and his fabulous research. He also helped me with a lot of details of the Lafferty case, and so we thought we'd come and help you break down fact from fiction. Today, we're going to be talking about episode two. Hi, this is Lindsay Hansen Park.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:16)
And this is Bryan Buchanan.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:17)
Bringing you the story of Mormonism from the shadow of the everlasting hills, straight out of Zion, this isn't your grandpa's Mormon history.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:26)
Thanks for. This is the tale of Mormon saints and sinners from our roots until present day.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (1:50)
Gird your loins, lock your hearts, and pay your tithing, because we're bringing you the story of Mormonism in all its paradisiacal glory.

**Bryan Buchanan** (1:58)
It's the Sunstone History Podcast.
So our first major scene we get in here is Brigham Young preaching in England, telling people about the wonders of America. Now this is an interesting scene to show because not only was he not part of the original mission to Britain in 1837, he's actually part of the second wave that goes in 1839 That puts it several years after the Kirtland period, which is most of the historical flashbacks we'll see during this one. So what is the effect of putting Brigham in England to juxtapose here?

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (2:50)
Yeah, so that, we made some interesting choices there. In the show, you see Brigham Young in Trafalgar's, am I saying that right? Trafalgar Square. Now he actually, it's hard because Trafalgar wasn't even really around then, it was being built at this time, which I didn't know. I don't know anything about English history as a Yankee myself, but we had to learn this. But it was this idea of how do we show something iconic from the time period so audiences understand that he's not in America. He's saying come to America. And so that's what that scene is. In reality, Brigham Young, of course, was in different parts of the country, but he was put in this role to show not only the missionary effort, the church is growing, it's starting to develop, but also to showcase the early optimism of the church and this Mormon doctrine of the gathering.
How do Mormon pioneers gather and come together? This vision of America tied in with religion is really the Mormon story. And so that scene is to show that Brigham Young is sort of romantic about Mormonism, which, why did you make a face when I said that?

**Bryan Buchanan** (3:57)
Well, that's the, being romantic about something, that's one of the hallmarks of someone who has some game, if I'm not mistaken.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (4:02)
He has some game when it comes to converts, unfortunately, but I will give you that. I will give you that, Brighamites.

**Bryan Buchanan** (4:10)
He seems to be a very charismatic missionary. It would be fascinating to have seen him preaching and see what that's like, because we have a very different view of him from other roles in his life. Brigham as very effective missionary, that would be interesting to see. So then we flash back to Jeb, who's having this very lovely discussion with his daughter, who's about to be baptized. And he talks about the idea that baptism will wash away your baby sins, right? And I've seen a couple of people talk about that.
Mormons don't talk about that way. And I thought that's another manifestation of this.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (4:41)
Wait, people said that?

**Bryan Buchanan** (4:42)
Mm-hmm.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (4:42)
Really?

**Bryan Buchanan** (4:43)
That was one of those ones that I didn't anticipate would need evidence.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (4:47)
I think someone needs to get out the testimony glove.

**Bryan Buchanan** (4:50)
Yeah, that was one I thought.

**Lindsay Hansen Park** (4:52)
Here is your body and this glove is your spirit.
And when you get born, you put the glove on the hand and your spirit and body are conjoined. Sometimes the glove touches dirty things and gets sticky and dirty and you need to wash it. And that's what baptism does. It washes it all away. Who says that that, I mean, that is how we tell children. Have you never served in nursery or primary critics?